[john marcella]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Mike,
Why do you or Gaby not answer Aaron's question.

Stan

I will.

If 2 motors make the same peak hp.

Motor A makes it at low rpm 6000.

Motor B makes it high at 9500.

Motor B will be faster down track because, when the hp peak is at a higher rpm the amount of rpm between TQ peak and HP peak is further apart. This means that there will be more average power under the usable rpm cure. The high rpm motor will not fall off as aggressive after TQ peak ,same with after HP peak. The result can only be more average power.
Don't forget that past peak is as important as below peak. If you can make the same HP at peak but not fall off as fast past peak, this will let you raise the rpm of the shift point consequently giving you more power under the curve.
You can get all the TQ you want with gear ratio.

Also I would think the spot that has the best ability to accelerate the car is at hp peak.
TQ is how much work it can do. HP is how much work over a period of time.
We race time

[JD311]

well im switching to imports!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by john marcella

I will.

If 2 motors make the same peak hp.

Motor A makes it at low rpm 6000.

Motor B makes it high at 9500.

Motor B will be faster down track because, when the hp peak is at a higher rpm the amount of rpm between TQ peak and HP peak is further apart. This means that there will be more average power under the usable rpm cure. The high rpm motor will not fall off as aggressive after TQ peak ,same with after HP peak. The result can only be more average power.
Don't forget that past peak is as important as below peak. If you can make the same HP at peak but not fall off as fast past peak, this will let you raise the rpm of the shift point consequently giving you more power under the curve.
You can get all the TQ you want with gear ratio.

Also I would think the spot that has the best ability to accelerate the car is at hp peak.
TQ is how much work it can do. HP is how much work over a period of time.
We race time

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Mike,
Can you please explain your physics to me.

Mine goes like this.

800 HP @ 6500 = 646.4 torque

800 HP @ 9500 = 442.2736842105263 torque

What is important is what we can delivery to wheel to accelerate the car.

9500 / 6500 = 1.461538461538461

1.461538461538461 * 442.2736842105263 = 646.3999999999997

So at 6500 axle RPM they both produce torque of 646.4

Now if you want to talk about 2 engines producing the same torque but at different RPM you are on to something.

Stan

John,
Using a a stick / clutch car to take the variable of the torque converter out of the picture.

Max acceleration is at peak torque. Log G force and RPM and plot it out. After each gear change G's will be the highest at that point and drop until you shift into the next gear.

At 9500 you will see a greater drop in RPM after the shift than you will at 6500 but the percentage of drop will be the same.

Stan

[johnta1]

We all know that the more power pulses that happen in a given amount of time more work is being done -- therfore a better E.T.. An extreem example would be a 400 hp diesle where power is maxed at 2200rpm and a 400hp small block making max at 7000, given the same weight and set up properly the small block will win the race.

Tell me this truck is slower than Jack's car?

Bank's Diesel truck

1300 HP @ 5500 RPM

Jack making 1300 HP (?) @ 8000 RPM (?)

So you guys reasoning the diesel is a pig right?

Double quoted for double stupidity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike leech
they don't want to get it.

I really don't know what I could say to further what I mean. All I know is its faster at the higher rpm.... I know this for a fact... I'm not saying know it all .Just what my car likes....

Neither of you seem to get it?

Charlie if you're going faster at the higher RPM, then you weren't making your peak power where you thought?

Running quick at a higher RPM is not the question here?

It's 2 different engines at the SAME HP but different RPM's.

It takes a certain amount of HP to run an ET at a given weight.
How it makes that HP is not real important.
(or by what engine manufacturer)

If Leech has 1000HP NOS engine and I have a 1000 HP N/A engine, in the same weight/car they should run exactly the same.

If they don't the slower car needs to work on his combo to utilize that HP.

Simple as that.

Can't explain it any better.

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Tell me this truck is slower than Jack's car?

Bank's Diesel truck

1300 HP @ 5500 RPM

Jack making 1300 HP (?) @ 8000 RPM (?)

So you guys reasoning the diesel is a pig right?





Double quoted for double stupidity.






Neither of you seem to get it?

Charlie if you're going faster at the higher RPM, then you weren't making your peak power where you thought?

Running quick at a higher RPM is not the question here?

It's 2 different engines at the SAME HP but different RPM's.

It takes a certain amount of HP to run an ET at a given weight.
How it makes that HP is not real important.
(or by what engine manufacturer)

If Leech has 1000HP NOS engine and I have a 1000 HP N/A engine, in the same weight/car they should run exactly the same.

If they don't the slower car needs to work on his combo to utilize that HP.

Simple as that.

Can't explain it any better.

I thought you guys were comparing 2 different engines making the same hp at different rpm peaks.. I have a question. Why would the motor spinning faster not effect the shift from hitting the tire harder. Its like if I punch the wall from 3"s away and then punch it from 12"s away . The momentum helps the impact. I would think the rotating assembly spinning faster would have that same effect.. If I got the question wrong, Then I apologize.. I also think if you are shifting higher then it will drop the same amount because the fact of, more rpm more tire speed .
I dynoed my motor in the car. I do know exactly where it made peak hp..

As for the comparison of the NOS car and the NA car. I would think the 2 would have different characteristics. Which may change where it would perform the best down the track.. As for which on is better got me , Just sayin....

[3fastgtos]

The higher I shift the better my engine sounds and that makes me feel better

[johnta1]

I also think if you are shifting higher then it will drop the same amount because the fact of, more rpm more tire speed .
I dynoed my motor in the car. I do know exactly where it made peak hp..

As for the comparison of the NOS car and the NA car. I would think the 2 would have different characteristics. Which may change where it would perform the best down the track.. As for which on is better got me , Just sayin....

1st dynoing in the car is one of the problems with that style setup.
It's not good for telling how it reacts going down the strip.
Plus lots of things can detract from the 'HP' number they give you.
(tire/roller slip, converter cars not using the converter right, etc)

The gear change RPM situation is a combination problem, not the HP problem?
You need to figure out where the engine likes to run with your power band.
The HP is the same whether you shift at 6800 or 7500 at each respective RPM point.

So if it likes to go faster at 7500 RPM, shift there?

[johnta1]

The higher I shift the better my engine sounds and that makes me feel better

Yep.



Until you find the breaking point or the power falls off drastically.

As said before, it's not how high you can rev the engine.

[Daniel Barton]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Tell me this truck is slower than Jack's car?

Bank's Diesel truck

1300 HP @ 5500 RPM

Jack making 1300 HP (?) @ 8000 RPM (?)

So you guys reasoning the diesel is a pig right?





Double quoted for double stupidity.






Neither of you seem to get it?

Charlie if you're going faster at the higher RPM, then you weren't making your peak power where you thought?

Running quick at a higher RPM is not the question here?

It's 2 different engines at the SAME HP but different RPM's.

It takes a certain amount of HP to run an ET at a given weight.
How it makes that HP is not real important.
(or by what engine manufacturer)

If Leech has 1000HP NOS engine and I have a 1000 HP N/A engine, in the same weight/car they should run exactly the same.

If they don't the slower car needs to work on his combo to utilize that HP.

Simple as that.

Can't explain it any better.

Your comparing a vehicle that weighs about 1000 pounds less than Jacks car to his, and you believe that you have explained this? Please explain why at 1300 hp at 5500 it runs a half a second slower than a legal pro stock truck making about 1000 hp at 9800.

[Jeff Kinsler]

you guys have way to much free time on your hands

[60man]

We still talking about L'll Jack's heads ?
Have at it..

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

you guys have way to much free time on your hands

Or maybe you don't have enough?

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by johnta1

1st dynoing in the car is one of the problems with that style setup.
It's not good for telling how it reacts going down the strip.
Plus lots of things can detract from the 'HP' number they give you.
(tire/roller slip, converter cars not using the converter right, etc)

The gear change RPM situation is a combination problem, not the HP problem?
You need to figure out where the engine likes to run with your power band.
The HP is the same whether you shift at 6800 or 7500 at each respective RPM point.

So if it likes to go faster at 7500 RPM, shift there?

I think my combo is fine. With 538 rear wheel hp car weighing 3370 with me in it. 9.90. im happy...

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by 60man

We still talking about L'll Jack's heads ?
Have at it..

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[GTO Dan]

"It's the most wonderful time of the year..."

I always thought that song was only about Christmas.

[mike leech]

Dang I slept good last night.

This is about what i expected to read when i opened this. the MORON computer racers need to have a convention and one of the topics should be unless YOU have done it stop giving advise. You've heard it from a few reputable sources and still carry on with your fingers in your ears convinced you two dolts are the only ones that get it.

THATS WHAT ALL THE CRAZY WEIRDOS THINK ABOUT EVERYTHING IN THEIR LIFE, FROM CAT FOOD TO CALCULATORS THEY ARE RIGHT AND WE ALL NEED TO REALIZE IT! YOU 2 ARE NUTS! FOR CLARITY I MEAN STAN AND JOHNTA1 YOU 2 ARE BATSHXT CRAZY.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Suppose 1 engine has 600 HP at 8000 rpm, vs an engine with 570 HP at 6000 RPM.

when a fella plots the HP & TQ of each engine, the 570 HP @ 6000 RPM may jump out as a real gem. I'll pick that 570 HP @ 6000. HIS

This is only clear to the frustrated when plotted. the 570 HP engine is making far more power from 4000-to-6000 whereas the 30 extra Hp from the other engine yielde less power under the RPM range of usage.

If the question was 570 HP @ 6700 versus 600 HP @ 8000; is the choice clearer.

if the 600 Hp was at 18000 RPM the choice should be painly clear. HIS

Gearing & rev range have inertia & take power, yet what is the engine power (HP) across the applied rpm range? Power is power, yet we need POWER over applied rpm range.

TQ converters that really really really work may allow an argument favoring the higher RPM engine. me thinks the really effective converters can be had for the lower rpm engine for better TQ-multiply. so the better converter argument is for another thread. Otherwise, where's that ideal CVT transmission?

[Scott Roberts]

The engine with a higher rpm limit will be faster then an equal hp engine with a lower rpm limit. The higher rpm engine can be geared lower which will give it a mechanical advantage in accelerating faster over the entire span Its been proven. There are many other factors that make this true aswell but that is a big one.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

This is only clear to the frustrated when plotted. the 570 HP engine is making far more power from 4000-to-6000 whereas the 30 extra Hp from the other engine yielde less power under the RPM range of usage.

If the question was 570 HP @ 6700 versus 600 HP @ 8000; is the choice clearer.

if the 600 Hp was at 18000 RPM the choice should be painly clear. HIS

Gearing & rev range have inertia & take power, yet what is the engine power (HP) across the applied rpm range? Power is power, yet we need POWER over applied rpm range.

TQ converters that really really really work may allow an argument favoring the higher RPM engine. me thinks the really effective converters can be had for the lower rpm engine for better TQ-multiply. so the better converter argument is for another thread. Otherwise, where's that ideal CVT transmission?

I love ya man but you'd be wrong. Example; my converter flashes to 7000 i shift a 8100 and it drops to 7300 on the gear change. How much time do i spend NOT between 7300 and 8100? About .2 seconds if that. So who cares what my engine makes below 7300 as long as I can efficiently get it to 7300. My car sure don't care. If I made the same power and operated the engine between 7800 and 8600 IT WILL PICK THE CAR UP. Couple hundredths at least.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

The engine with a higher rpm limit will be faster then an equal hp engine with a lower rpm limit. The higher rpm engine can be geared lower which will give it a mechanical advantage in accelerating faster over the entire span Its been proven. There are many other factors that make this true aswell but that is a big one.

Funny how all the fast guys get it.....Oh wait I forgot about the kre thing so your opinion wont matter like mine.