[stevep]

Originally Posted by Sidponcho

I recall showing up at a convention in MA with my 69 Firebird. The dude at the gate immediatley commented that my wheels were not correct (because I couldn't afford RallyII's at the time). Otherwise, my Firebird was beautiful (in my opinion). I was then sent to the back of the hotel where my Firebird could spend some quality time with the dumpsters and cooks on cigarette breaks. Never again.

I was the chair of that show in 1987 and 1998. I feel as that I owe you an apology for the way that you were treated. Was it someone in Tech Inspection who made the comment about your wheels and as a result of that, were you mis-classed?

We were VERY short of space due to a problem with the front grass area which was promised to us in writing but there was a legal battle ongoing so we were not able to use it, which caused a major problem for everyone.

[Simple Man]

It would appear from this vantage point, that the leadership at POCI, is not interested in any change, that they like things the way they are.

Fair enough, but then don't wonder what's happened, when membership continues to decline.

[Don Keefe]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hamlin

I’ve been a member since the 80’s and focus on the idea of the club’s Preservation of Oakland and Pontiac history which is what keeps me aboard. I’ve never gotten caught up in politics and/or cliques; and could care less what one feels about a particular Pontiac I may be driving.
I’ve always been one to wade through the BS and gravitate to what I enjoy rather than allow one part of a situation to become my only focus and prohibit me taking part in an otherwise enjoyable club/hobby.
The changes I’ve seen clearly seem to have been a necessity, and as with any large organization, there will always be some who feel it’s not enough or one-sided. This is something I’ve dealt with in a club of 70; so I can only imagine what our directors hear and deal with.
POCI is an ever evolving club and I look forward to change. I enjoy the NEW look and style of our newsletter. It has become a vital tool and I like reading it. I know the newer/late model Pontiacs always seem to get met with some resistance, but they are the future of this club so I welcome them as with anything that will keep this club moving forward.
I would only suggest we put a bit more emphasis on the historic entities this club has access to before they are gone.
i.e. pre-war Oaklands & Pontiacs. I would like to see a segment that captures these rarely seen cars. When I first joined the Pontiac Circle,
My first intent was to always discover, visit, and examine the old iron at any show local or otherwise.
As years passed it just becomes the normal course of evolution that we see less and less of these treasures. It would be great if we could pursue some of these with articles, photos, etc on the cars and the owners of restored and un-restored (survivors). Making contact with these and allowing them to be shared with our members is something I’m sure wouldn't be easy but very much of interest. I know it has been stated if you send it in we would love to show it but possibly reaching out now and then for a special feature may bear some fruit?

Keep up the Great work and I look forward to what POCI has in store for the new-year.

We are on the same page with that and there will be some features in 2014 that will cater to that very premise. If you are interested in the history of the early cars and the early years of the club, you will be in for multiple treats.

[critter]

I've watched this thread with some interest. I got a bad taste in my mouth early on with POCI. I re-joined last year for a year just to see and went to the convention. Things were MUCH better than my first experience so I think the new management is doing better. That said, I think they're facing the same problems our own independent Pontiac club is facing. I wrote this for our newsletter and web site and I think it might be appropriate to add to this thread.

My wife and I were out fetching dog food the other day an and ended up over at David’s Burgers in North Little Rock. You all know how huge that parking lot is. When we pulled up the parking area was crammed with Evo’s, Honda’s, Talon’s, and even late model Trans Ams and GTO’s. Hoods were up and people were milling about despite the frigid temperatures.

We went inside to eat and it was full of youngsters with smart phones, body piercings and tattoos. Many of them were wearing logo clothing that had automotive related references. I watched those tables and saw them doing exactly what car folks do, talking cars and having a great time.

When we left I pulled up to a group of those kids and asked them if this was a club show or something. The young man that responded said no, it was just a “car meet”. We talked cars for a bit and they were tickled when I told them I’d like to come out and play some time. They were even respectful when I explained the cars we owned and pretty impressed that I had an old Trans Am. Yep, they knew what it was. I can tell you not a one of them was over 30 years old.

So I asked them how I would find out about the next “meet” they have. It was pretty easy to see where we are failing to reach that generation. The only static site they could direct me to was a Facebook page for the tuner crowd in Little Rock. Other than that it was all done via text messaging and twitter. Welcome to social media.

The challenge to our incoming officers is a big one. I think we have to find a way to engage this group of people. It’s time to find a way to adapt to their way of doing car events. It’s time to park less, drive more and put much less emphasis on static car shows and trophies. That’s not their scene. It was our scene but if we can’t draw enough interest to even get officers on a regular basis it might be time to get out of the way for the new generation.

All of that to say that I think the car hobby is just fine. The problem is, us old dogs can’t keep up anymore in the new age of technology. It might not be named POCI or the Arkansas Pontiac Association in the year 2050, but there will still be a car culture.

[Elarson]

Bingo!!!!!!

Eric

[Old Blue 66]

Great post Critter.

[7t8ta]

I think POCI needs to start picking better locations for the convention. The week is rough too doing on the week of the 4th of July is tricky too. A lot of people celebrate the holiday and others can't get that week off because it's a popular vacation week. In the past few years I've been down to Myrtle Beach for family vacations (middle of July) and both times the Mustang club was down there for a big convention. Everywhere you looked Mustangs were there. It was fun to watch (& I hate mustangs!) but Myrtle Beach and other fun destinations are much more easy to sell to families with kids and younger people than some city in the middle of nowhere. There are plenty of hotels and other things to do during the week. If I told my wife we'd be spending a weeks summer vacation in Wichita Kansas or St. Charles Il. She'd laugh at me. She likes going to car shows and meets but a weeks vacation in those cities won't fly. I think that's part of the problem getting new people to attend. No offense to the people of those cities, just not hot spots at travel agencies. Just something for POCI to think about. And I'm a member.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by critter

The challenge to our incoming officers is a big one. I think we have to find a way to engage this group of people. It’s time to find a way to adapt to their way of doing car events. It’s time to park less, drive more and put much less emphasis on static car shows and trophies. That’s not their scene. It was our scene but if we can’t draw enough interest to even get officers on a regular basis it might be time to get out of the way for the new generation.

THIS is KEY.

[MPKind]

Right. Location is huge for these national events, or smaller ones. I've ranted a few times on this topic, but it's a good topic, and I'm still venting on something I've been frustrated about for 10 years.

The other point that Critter made is that the younger crowd will not tolerate boring events whether they are spontaneously setup via facebook, or planned out ahead. Let's face it folks, most car events can be very boring. Walk around, look at trailer queens, go to a rubber chicken banquet, and sit through a boring program to get a plaque...I'd rather set my hair on fire. I know people put a lot of time and effort into these national events...this isn't a slam on them and their work. However, putting time into worn out ideas renders a result that won't attract and retain new/younger participants.

Can you imagine a bunch of 25 y/o tuners with tats and piercings sitting at a chicken dinner banquet listening to the car club's annual budget report and getting participation plaques? The image is almost laughable. Not that an event should be non-stop excitement, but the time for thinking out of the box is now.

If the POCI top brass is reading this, take note. Your club is dying and your lack of leadership and inventiveness to bring the club into the 21st century is glaring.

Critter's story about the tuners should give some clues as to what has to happen to keep the car clubs going. With networking via Facebook and Twitter spontaneous event could be setup and executed within 24 hours. It could be a cruise, or an small gathering at a local tavern or café, or even a road trip to a regional drag strip. There are a lot of tools out there to enhance the car hobby, so lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.

[PMD1969]

As I stated earlier the old school officers are and will let the POCI die a slow death over their own position and interests.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by PMD1969

As I stated earlier the old school officers are and will let the POCI die a slow death over their own position and interests.

[importsmasher]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

THIS is KEY.

X2!

I enjoy going to car shows, but once I've walked the field I'm done (and most of my family is completely bored). I much prefer to get in my car and drive.

When I lived in Phoenix my favorite event was the cruise on Central Ave. There were several places you could park and walk around and see the cars, but you also had hundreds of cars cruising up and down the street. It made it so much more fun; I could cruise for hours, stopping off at various points to check out the cars. And my family enjoyed it much more as well.

I think one of the reasons the hobby may decline is the younger generation doesn't see these cars doing what they do best. All they see are a bunch of old guys sitting in lawn chairs next to their cars...sure the cars are beautiful, but I think more people would be interested in the events and the cars if they were moving (whether a cruise or racing) rather than just sitting there being rubbed with a diaper...

That being said, I'm not a POCI member....I hardly make it to any shows these days due to having several small kids....I hope to be more active when my kids are a little older.

Importsmasher

[2manyponchos]

I am likely in agreement with most folks on all that is stated above. There are a few things convention related, that while agree with what has been said above, I have a different perspective haveing been involved on the planning and delivery of the conventions. A bright sunny tropical escape is not always an option for many reasons. There is a balance of an area that has a lot to offer along with a Convention/Visitors Bureau that wants the business vs a sunny tourist destination.

A key thing that I noted on my application that needed improved is the fact that a large part of POCI members consider the a-body and f-body "new era" cars, and yes I am referring to 1964s and 1967s. You don't know how many times I have heard from POCI members that a GTO is a late model mass produced unrare car...and this was discussion about 64-74s. The, what I consider, late model corporate powered cars are an entirely different group that POCI has little too offer and in general does not welcome with open arms. I was honest which probably didn't help my case...

[Stuart]

A few points:

Regarding the locations where the national convention is held, remember this is a big country - I think it's important that the location moves around every year, to give more people a chance to attend. I don't know the statistics for POCI national convention attendees, but I'd be willing to bet that in any given year the vast majority lived within one days' drive of the location.

It's part of the bylaws of an organization like POCI that they are required to hold annual meetings, to go over and approve the annual budget, vote on amendments, and discuss other business matters with the members. It's one of those things that holds little interest for most people but it has to be done, so having the meeting during the convention makes sense.

Nowadays, spontaneous or popup car gatherings (like cars and coffee events) are more and more popular. I've gone to a number of them myself, and they're fun - you show up for a few hours and hang out, then go home and get on with the rest of your weekend. However, that model doesn't work for a national meet where besides setting up a show you also need to arrange lodging for people, arranging for speakers and seminars, setting up extracurricular activities like cruises, drag racing or autocross events, and so on. It needs a group of dedicated people who can spend most of the previous year setting things up.

[2manyponchos]

Originally Posted by Stuart

It needs a group of dedicated people who can spend most of the previous year setting things up.

...or the previous 2 years or 3 years...

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by 2manyponchos

...or the previous 2 years or 3 years...

You're right, it most likely takes at least a couple years to plan things out.

I've been in charge of small local volunteer groups (say 75 people or so) in the past, and having to plan out events for a group that small can take up most of a year. Doing it for national organization is going to be orders of magnitude more complicated.

[critter]

Originally Posted by Stuart

A few points:

Regarding the locations where the national convention is held, remember this is a big country - I think it's important that the location moves around every year, to give more people a chance to attend. I don't know the statistics for POCI national convention attendees, but I'd be willing to bet that in any given year the vast majority lived within one days' drive of the location.

It's part of the bylaws of an organization like POCI that they are required to hold annual meetings, to go over and approve the annual budget, vote on amendments, and discuss other business matters with the members. It's one of those things that holds little interest for most people but it has to be done, so having the meeting during the convention makes sense.

Nowadays, spontaneous or popup car gatherings (like cars and coffee events) are more and more popular. I've gone to a number of them myself, and they're fun - you show up for a few hours and hang out, then go home and get on with the rest of your weekend. However, that model doesn't work for a national meet where besides setting up a show you also need to arrange lodging for people, arranging for speakers and seminars, setting up extracurricular activities like cruises, drag racing or autocross events, and so on. It needs a group of dedicated people who can spend most of the previous year setting things up.

I agree, a national convention does require that.

But I think you may be missing my point. These younger folks did not want a national convention. Hell, they don't even want to belong to a local club or go the meetings a club entails. They're just as happy tweeting out a car meet on Saturday at the local burger joint. Show up, hang with friends and fellow enthusiasts, go home. No dues, no meetings, no pressure to be an officer or organize the next event.

I see their point. Why do all that work if no one cares?

[GTOWAGON]

I will always prefer to go to a unorganized cruise over a "members only" event I love Pontiacs but I like to see a variety of cars one of the best cruises I go to is at the captree boat basin on Sunday mornings on Long Island I live 6 hours away but will make the drive a couple times a year just to hang out for a few hours then drive home I would never drive that far for a POCI convention. I had a horrible time when I was a POCI member as mentioned it was very clique and my cars were never correct enough for the older members. I like to drive my cars and modify them to make them more fun to drive I don't care if the voltage regulator screws are correct or not or if the stripes didn't come from the factory. I took my niece to an all Pontiac show a couple years ago and she liked the cars although she asked why there are so many of the same car there and where are the newer cars like in fast and furious.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by importsmasher

X2!

I enjoy going to car shows, but once I've walked the field I'm done (and most of my family is completely bored). I much prefer to get in my car and drive.

When I lived in Phoenix my favorite event was the cruise on Central Ave. There were several places you could park and walk around and see the cars, but you also had hundreds of cars cruising up and down the street. It made it so much more fun; I could cruise for hours, stopping off at various points to check out the cars. And my family enjoyed it much more as well.

I think one of the reasons the hobby may decline is the younger generation doesn't see these cars doing what they do best. All they see are a bunch of old guys sitting in lawn chairs next to their cars...sure the cars are beautiful, but I think more people would be interested in the events and the cars if they were moving (whether a cruise or racing) rather than just sitting there being rubbed with a diaper...

That being said, I'm not a POCI member....I hardly make it to any shows these days due to having several small kids....I hope to be more active when my kids are a little older.

Importsmasher

I absolutely couldn't agree more. The most fun I had with my car last year was the cruise down to Pontiac Il to the museum. We had about 30 cars in the caravan and it was 40 degrees and we had the top down!. I don't do many car shows. Id much rather drive with a bunch of friends somewhere spend some time and drive back. Cant have more fun with my car than having it on the road.

I only do one show a year and thats our local show. Its all Pontiac, and I know so many people its like a yearly reunion and I have a blast. Otherwise I dont do the day long shows. I just get bored.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by Stuart

You're right, it most likely takes at least a couple years to plan things out.

I've been in charge of small local volunteer groups (say 75 people or so) in the past, and having to plan out events for a group that small can take up most of a year. Doing it for national organization is going to be orders of magnitude more complicated.

You can say that again. It took the better part of two years planning for the POCI St Charles show here in 2012. The end results were great, but planning is a b**ch.