[steve]

Hey guys I am about ready to pull the tigger on a project car. I have never brought one back from this far so I am sure there are things I am missing when estimating the effort it will take. I was hoping some people out there who have brought back a Pontiac (firebird) from being partially dissasembled and needing some floorboard/trunk work could share with me what the worst/most expensive part of the process was. I understand that paint will likely be the most expensive since I can't paint it. I guess I'm thinking mostly about mechanicals because the body seems pretty solid....the car was raced at some point and has been sitting awhile.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Excel sheet for tally of parts needed, parts sold to justify the investment. Have a solid performance parameter to meet. Don't go for perfection in all areas.

Important goal to get it running, inspected, in use. THEN perform the minor bolt-on parts upgrades.

[Willshire]

X2. I brought a 64 gp back to running condition and use every winter to tear it down and all summer to drive. My winter goals are just large enough to start in october and bolted back together by april. This winter is new drivetrain and interior work. If you think about it, the front clip and driveline out in a day. I would fix the floor and get it rolling if it were me. At that point drivetrain will soak up the most $$$$ imho

[Torquewar]

Yes the paint is a potential budget killer,how nice do want it ?. The body paint are the first things you notice about most cars.I would concentrate on the structure...floors etc and get it right. The rest can be done in stages when time money allows. First off is to make it safe regarding brakes tires and other suspesion critical components.
As a above post mentioned do you need it perfect in all areas, engine compartment interior,underside. I say do it once but again if you can reuse components then clean and reinstall.
Driveline can also suck up bucks but again what do want to achieve ,driver or perfromance.
This is a hard question to answer but its all about goals.
Good luck and keep some updates coming.

[HWYSTR455]

I've done both approaches, piece at a time, and all at once. There's pros and cons to each, but sometimes you don't have a choice.

Nice thing about doing it all at once is, it's all done. At once. Takes more patience, time, and space. These type are susceptable to 'project failure', because some take a break, and never go back to it.

Doing an area/piece at a time allows you to enjoy the car sooner, but it's never 'done'. By the time you do a lap, you're due to going over the first area of the car you did. This can get frustrating, and some just bail and sell the car, buying a new or newer mid-life crisis-type car, like a 'vette.

One nice thing about doing the body first is, when it does become drive-able, it looks good. It can have a crappy interior, blow smoke, run like crap, exhaust leaks, you name it, but while it's sitting in the local burger joint, it looks good.

You can do everything else first, deal with the body at the end, and in most cases, is the most common approach. It can take years to get that amount together to do the body work, but it's likely you will be more in a place to dump cash into than you may be now.

If you do pull the trigger, start a build thread here. Don't worry about it not being that 100%, over the top, killer, museum piece, most can't do that. Showing how an acceptable driver-quality rebuild can be done encourages others in the same boat, and makes the goals seem more obtainable. And you would be amazed at what can be done with a rattle can!

.

[geeteeohguy]

Most of the projects I have seen over the years that were completely disassembled for restoration never get put back together. By most, I mean probably 80-90% failure rate. This is due to 'life getting in the way", etc. Priorities, interests,health, and finances all change. I'm all for the get it running and fix as you drive school of thought. None of my current ones have ever been 'restored'.....I've been driving them for the past 30 years instead. They have been repaired and painted as needed along the way. A lot depends on the initial condition of the car, though. It needs to be solid and safe to drive.

[steve]

I do plan on this project taking several years and its really just as much therapy as it is simply goal oriented. I said many many times on my 67 that I had more fun working on it than driving it. I am about to lose my job so I want to get my feet into a project before I can't justify ANY sort of project. I plan on spending the first year cleaning and assessing my strategy. I will NO DOUBT start a project thread that will surely entertain as I have plenty yet to learn.

Hopefully when I get to look at it for the second time tonight (much closer inspection than the first look) I will like what I see and feel good about jumping on this one.

Anyone near the valley forge PA area that has a flatbed and wants to help get er home for beer ?

[Blued and Painted]

Put together a generous estimate on body, interior, suspention, power train, and 1000 hours labor. Then ADD AT LEAST 10%. Then look and see what a similar car cost fixed up and ready to drive.

If everything is bad on the car your not going to come out in the plus column.

[steve]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

Put together a generous estimate on body, interior, suspention, power train, and 1000 hours labor. Then ADD AT LEAST 10%. Then look and see what a similar car cost fixed up and ready to drive.

Point made....but for me it's about doing it myself. To coin a phrase from my jeep brethren....."built not bought" ! My son leaves for college in 5 years. It would be nice if it's on the road by then.

[ta man]

Women

[428RA4]

I for one have restored a car little by little and finally got it close to finished. Then crashed it and did the car all over again.

good times.

[track73]

Just a thought; I worked on the brakes first when fixing up my 56 buick. Next was the engine , the interior and finally the body.

[Radman]

I have done 2 cars. The first one I did all of the mechanical stuff the first winter, body and paint the second winter. The secod one was so rough body wise that the mechanical and body work had to be done at the same time. Oh yea it was also a modified car, everything under the sheet metal changed. No choice that way everything done at the same time.
As others have said, plan a big budget and do not be supprised when you go over budget. Remember, it is a labor of love.

[steve]

trigger pulled. new thread with pics ect to come soon.......

[GTOLou]

Buyiing it in boxes - like GeeTeeoguy stated is usually not a good idea.

[Nicks67GTO]

-I agree with HWYSTR455. Don't worry about perfection. A rattle can of satin black rustoleum goes a long way and If you drive it at all, perfection goes away quickly anyhow.

-Well I would say whatever $$$ number you have in your head you should darn near double it and you'll be about there. I cannot count how many guys think they'll be able to restore a car from a basket case for $10K. Especially a Pontiac. Guys I know will ask me about what I think it will cost to restore this or that. When I say "25-40K depending on what you do yourself and what your goals are"... I can see their heart sink right in front of me but I feel i'm doing them a favor. Even if i'm high they should know what they're getting into.

-I know this seems obvious but to reduce the big $$ number, make it feel easier over the years, and getting the car on the road where its enjoyable..... you can always buy used stuff at a good price you know you'll be able to get back most of it when its time to upgrade. Also you don't have to have the latest and greatest. Check out my build thread, look over the $800 455/6X4 craigslist find I'm running and check the before and after pics. It runs great and iv'e got probably $1100 bucks in the entire thing carb to pan, as opposed to $4-6000 right out of the gate and when it comes time to upgrade I know ill get my money out of it. Same went for a set of QA1 upper control arms. I bought them super cheap and sold them for a profit after I ran them for the summer.....just a few examples but that stuff adds up.

-Better make sure the wife is cool with it from the get go, understands the cost and ridiculous amount of time involved or you could end up selling for a huge loss when you're half done....or lose half you **** when she leaves you??!!

[steve]

I don't disagree with anything posted.

This will be my 7th "project" car. My first firebird was a 75 esprit back in the 80's I worked on with my dad. I went from that to a 65 mustang, then back to Pontiac with a 67 and a 71 firebird. Got out of Pontiac for a while and had two vettes....a 73 and an 03. (I won't mention the brief miata ownership ). Now I am starting over with this 71 bird that I want to clone into a formula....always wanted a second gen formula since the 80's.

This will not be a perfect "trailer queen" type project. More like a resto-mod on a budget. I plan to do everything I can possibly do on my own. I hope to bring everything I have learned on the way to this point to bear in a very methodical, practical way. I even plan on documenting every cent spent on the car. Oil changes and bolts....everything. I intentionally picked a car that needed plenty of work with body work being the least it needs because that's what I have the least experience with. With the economy sucking so bad I have plenty of time off and need to keep busy. I hope to source as many used parts as I can and even hope to scour the earth for the best deals even if it takes time. This is the opposite of the way I have done it in the past. I usually throw money at it until I sticks !

Since I bought a car that needs more restoring than anything I have done before I am very concerned that there will be more surprises than I planned for. Stuff like bent frames and deadly rot. I learned some of the rot issues from the corvette crew and thier "birdcage issues".

The 71 will need almost every mechanical and electrical part replaced or refurbed. I am looking forward to the challenge. I know there will be many ups and downs.

If I have it done in under 6 years and less than 20k I'll be happy. We shall see !

Anyway the car is delivered tomorrow and I'll start the epic 71 formula clone thread with a bunch of pictures to get folks an idea of what I got and where I'm going.

It will progress very slowly and I'm sure there will be weeks and even months with very little progress but I hope to document it all here. Any tips on producing a quality and interesting thread will be greatly appreciated.

I'm sure there are some guys here that remember my sophomore efforts on my 67 pseudo race car.....many here were very patient and helped GReAtLY on that one..


May the Pontiac god look favorably on my efforts !

[Rastoy]

I just finished my first project car (almost), a 71 Lemans. I know nothing about cars but I've restored a lot of motorcycles over the last 40 years so I thought I'd give it a shot. The car had a lot of cancer and I needed to replace most of the quarters and patch the front fenders. One thing I did was track my time. It took me 88 hours to do the body work - my original estimate based on making tanks and fenders for bikes was 20 hours.

Since I've painted my bikes I knew what was required to get a good paint job but my 10X10 paint booth was a bit too small for a car so I made a deal with a local painter. I prepared the car for paint - 34 hours - and delivered it to him to shoot. This saved me a lot of money on the paint job.

The part that killed me (the almost finished) is the mechanicals. I've never worked on cars but thought I'd be able to get any answers from various manuals. The prior owner (a friend of mine) had the motor replaced with a rebuilt 400 about 10 years ago and the car basically sat in his garage since then. So far I have 120 hours in fixing bad wiring, gaskets, etc.

It's been fun but I doubt I'll ever do it again.

[HWYSTR455]

Two things make the choice of 'how' to 'restore' a car, if you're going to 'keep it' or 'sell it'. Once that choice is made, you know what will be replaced or 'fixed'.

Electrical is one of those things, keeping it? (the car). Then it pretty much all needs to be replaced.

You can make your own harnesses, and I've seen some come out nicer than replacement ones, or even the OE ones. But it's labor intensive.

When I first got my '71 'bird, the dash harness was so butchered, when driving at night, you could see little 'flare-ups' of stuff shorting and cooking under the dash. Occassionally would smell stuff, but not see anything. That thing would leave me stranded and I'd have to rig a patch. Kept bunches of wire, a stripper, and tape in the trunk.

Body work is just plain labor intensive. Getting as much prep work out of the way makes sense, but then again, you have to know where to leave it up to a professional too. You don't want make more work for the body guy.

.

[paint guy]

X2. I ALWAYS replace any electrical on any car that is suspect, even if I have to build my own harness. I have never built a car that deserved to be put back to completely original (have only owned one car that was rare enough to deserve a #s matching resto, and I sold it before I had a chance to start on it) so electrical systems for me usually start with an aftermarket harness and modifications start from there. At any rate, the peace of mind gained from new electrical is well worth it, no matter how you get there.
As far as body work goes, a few simple rules will get you a long way: remove all rust, prime ASAP after removing all rust, blast your welds, use high quality products, and repeatedly guide coat and block. I've found that if I do these things, my body work will have some longevity to it.