[Mads575]

Hi I'm new to car restoration and I'm looking for beginning tips on where to start! I'm restoring the car from the ground up. Currently I'm taking the entire car apart as much as I can and going to sand down the chassis get it painted and put it all back together. Where should I start when I want to start putting it all back together? From the suspension, to swaybar, and gas tank what should I focus on first?

[Keith Seymore]

My advice would be.....don't do it.

Or at least, not yet. Let's talk this through:

a) What is your desire for this car?
Are you going to build a show car/trailer queen? Or do you intend to drive and enjoy it?

Your answer to those questions will dictate if you want to get into that level of detail on the chassis and underside.

b) How much do you plan to spend (moneywise)?
Double it.

c) How much do you plan to spend (timewise)?
Triple it. Craigslist and ebay are chock full of "projects" where the enthusiast lost interest. Little kids grow up and get involved in sports, jobs expand, life happens and projects expand to fill the time available for their completion. I would plan on it taking several years. Are you the kind of person who's dogged determination allows you to see things through to completion, even when it's like crawling through 10 miles of broken glass? Or are you characterized by starting things and then not finishing them?

d) Do you have a place to do this work (preferably a heated three car garage)?
Because you're going to need 1 bay for the body, one bay for the chassis and one bay for all the stuff you take off.

e) Are you doing this to make money when you sell it?
You won't. You'll get about 1/2 of your investment back in this market.

f) What kind of shape is the car in now?
They are only original once. If it's in decent shape (presentable) already and driveable (or driveable with a few enhancements) then you may just want to rub on it, enhancing it a little as you go.

g) Do you have an understanding wife and family?
How's your health (and age)? How's the job outlook over the next few years?

h) Is this the right car?
If the car is really bad, from a rust standpoint, you may be farther ahead to spend a bit more and have a better starting point. Plus - are you ok with it being a Lemans? There are some that might think this is a lot of effort that might be better spent (more payback) if you were re-doing a GTO.

You'll need to consider all this.

These are just a few questions that come to mind that need to be answered before you turn the first bolt. I've had the body off my car and I hope to never have it that torn down again.



After you've thought about these then the group (including me) might have some excellent suggestions on how to attack a project of this magnitude.

K

[Rob B]

X2 on Keith's post.
You could find a recently completed frame off car done right for less money than you would spend doing yours. Especially if your just looking for a Lemans/Tempest and not a true GTO.

[Keith Seymore]

Made me think of this thread:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ighlight=faint

K

[bigborehunter]

In today's market you can buy a car and get the restoration free if it was done within the last 5 years. Look at auctions at Kissimmee and eBay. Great time to buy, awful time to sell. Not super time to take on a big resto project unless the car is a keeper and or is super rare.

[rustedgoat]

I would restore some components separate from the car. You can pick up some front control arms and all the steering components, rebuild, detail, plate and paint them. You'll get a good feel on whats involved, and your car will still be movable/drivable.

Its very easy to take it all apart and think your making progress, its getting it back together thats has all the issues. Also make up a spreadsheet lists all the parts and the costs of rebuilding and replacing those parts.

[70 Lemans]

OMG, I can relate with what you wish to attempt. In 2004 I bought a freshly restored 70 Lemans Sport for $3500.

The only thing that was wrong with it was the car-port tent it was under fell on the car in a wind storm. Basically, it had three scratches in the paint, hood, door and trunk. Remember the car was a recent resto! I used the car as is for 6 months and decided to fore fill my longtime dream of having a car most would consider show and go!
Yes, I blasted it apart! Call it a ground up, frame off, rotisserie, or whatever. I call it lost enjoyment. Sure, I gained incremental enjoyment during the project but looking back on my decision I definitely wish I enjoy the car longer before blasting apart!
I say enjoy it for a while (1-2 years) then if you must do your ground up, plan the project well. Bag and tag EVERYTHING!

Ps, I'm still working on that dream of mine!

[mct37]

Keith, youre killing us! Mads, dont listen to him, he's trying to use logic. Fills me with self doubt til I take a ride to get a 12 pack, hear the horns beep and see the people cluster around it when I come walking out of the liquor store.

Still I ask what kind of moron would restore a T37 or a lemans if you could get a real A body? Let alone in a rust prone climate in a rust prone exterior design...A labor of love I guess... plus there arent many morons like me left since for the longest time all the non GTO's were cut up for parts. In the mid 80's I had a 72 lemans driver (for 130K miles on the horror show highways of NJ)..car didnt owe me a dime, bench seat 350 2 bbl with air, and I was hooked. Same car same drive train same black interior T37 came my way for 350 bucks in 91. Dragged that car from place to place as I moved, slowly accumulated parts I needed that I couldnt already peel off the 72. I guess if you can do it as an in between hobby instead of an all or nothing gig it doesnt hurt as much. Even with only the 350, there's something about that ride. Even with the high perf & handling of the new cars, there's something about that ride. Obviously did it for myself to enjoy. I have to assume that noone in their right mind would do a T37 trailer queen - not when the GTO endura nose is so awesome. So thats a big question - you doing it for you to enjoy or for the clipboard points... Just keep in mind that the tempest, lemans and T37's might be the least desireable right now, but how many will still be around in the future if everyone chops them for goats?

[Pat A.]

Good advice Keith. Mads, if you are taking the car apart take lots of pictures of the parts you take off. You will need them for reference when you put it back together.

[Mads575]

This is to answer some questions and get somethings cleared up!!

a) What is your desire for this car?

What I want the car for is to drive around and keep as my baby.. mainly as leisure.

b) How much do you plan to spend (moneywise)?
I have plenty of money to drop on the car! About $1500 for the next 12 months.

c) How much do you plan to spend (timewise)?
I have plenty of time to attend to the vehicle. Right now I'm doing college and work study part-time so I will have about 6 hours a day to dedicate to the project. I dont plan on doing the paint myself but everything else is on my hands.

d) Do you have a place to do this work (preferably a heated three car garage)?
I don't have a bay or a garage but I got a HUGE YARD for fill and separate everything.

e) Are you doing this to make money when you sell it?
This car will never be sold or at least in my life-time!!

f) What kind of shape is the car in now?
The car is in a decent shape but looking at it you will notice it has lots of work. Its been in my family for years and its been sitting in one place for about 10 years now.

g) Do you have an understanding wife and family?
I have no wife and my family is helping me with the project.

h) Is this the right car?
This is the right car and I don't care about a NAME nor the price!!

Okay... so far the fist bolt has been twisted and the second and the third. So far I pulled apart the doors, complete interior, right and left fenders, front bumper, and trunk.

I have someone thats going to paint the car for me but my plan is to pull everything apart and strip the car down as much as possible. I want to remove the frame, sand blast the chassis and paint it. I will take all parts for them to be painted and worked on piece by piece. The car has rust all over the place but its not REALLY BAD.. small places are tore up.

If any, what special considerations should I look out for?
Where is the first or best place to start when I get the car apart?
The only reusable parts are the entire frame and rear bumper.... I want to re-due just about everything and use all OEM parts if possible.
Nothing performance or fancy will go into the car... yet!!! I want to keep it basic until I get it up and drive-able.. then start adding performance and fancy things!

[Amigo-2k]

I'm hoping you missed a "0" on your yearly funds ....

what you are talking about with a frame off restoration, and farming out some of the stuff, you are looking at 35,000 on up to complete it ...

Post some photos ....

I would take the 1500 and get it running and safe to drive first .... then enjoy it for a couple of years and see where life takes you ... if you rip it apart it will be worth less if 5 years from now your family decides to sell it.

[Mads575]

Originally Posted by Amigo-2k

I'm hoping you missed a "0" on your yearly funds ....

what you are talking about with a frame off restoration, and farming out some of the stuff, you are looking at 35,000 on up to complete it ...

Post some photos ....

I would take the 1500 and get it running and safe to drive first .... then enjoy it for a couple of years and see where life takes you ... if you rip it apart it will be worth less if 5 years from now your family decides to sell it.

So your saying it will be more than $18000 to restore the car?? What I meant is $1500 a month to spend on the car and like I said, I'm keeping the car for life!!! This car belonged to a deceased uncle of my family and it will remain in my family or in my care until I'm dead!!

What I mean is "I want to take the frame/body off the chassis and get it all painted and redone.... like the title says "GROUND UP"

[mct37]

Originally Posted by Mads575

So your saying it will be more than $18000 to restore the car?? What I meant is $1500 a month to spend on the car and like I said, I'm keeping the car for life!!! This car belonged to a deceased uncle of my family and it will remain in my family or in my care until I'm dead!!

What I mean is "I want to take the frame/body off the chassis and get it all painted and redone.... like the title says "GROUND UP"

Mads - PM sent, Franks Pontiac just did a 70 and has some sheet metal. PY has a good selection you should familiarize yourself with too. If you are thrifty and patient - and dont mind stripping a junker or 3, you can do that budget but freight for parts has to be considered (just ask Loffen).

[mct37]

Originally Posted by Mads575

So your saying it will be more than $18000 to restore the car?? What I meant is $1500 a month to spend on the car and like I said, I'm keeping the car for life!!! This car belonged to a deceased uncle of my family and it will remain in my family or in my care until I'm dead!!

What I mean is "I want to take the frame/body off the chassis and get it all painted and redone.... like the title says "GROUND UP"

Give us a little info: engine CI, auto or manual, bench or buckets, a/c, etc. what do you have from factory? What are ext / int colors?

[A.W.Dille]

Depending on how much you farm out and how much you want to do yourself $18000 is a pretty safe figure. Nothing wrong with doing what you want but myself I would get it running first as stated above and see what condition the engine and drivetrain is in. 68WarDog and I went and looked at a 70 GTO a couple of weeks back that would require a full frame off to get it right. I quoted the owner no less than 40grand and maybe up to 50grand to get it back to showroom condition. He wasn't expecting it to be that high but it would take no less than three years to do the car and that included the entire rear section at the trunk lip and bumper mounting area needing to be replaced along with an entire trunk floor and would require a donor car, and with the car sitting on the ground I couldn't see exactly what kind of shape the frame was in, it may be needing to be replaced also. I have done mine (71GTO in my sig) in my back yard and wish I would've had a garage to do it in. Bad weather has played a toll on the bodywork from it being exposed to the elements, going to need to be done again in the next couple of years, hopefully I'll have the money and be able physically to do the work myself. But my GTO has been in my possesion since 1986 and will go to my daughter (and hopefully my Grandson) when I get to the point I can't push a clutch anymore. Alot goes into doing an occasional driver if you plan on showing it. Alot to think about. My .02

[68lemansman]

I would say go for it. If the car means that much to you. Some cases of trying to do a resto on your own can be very overwhelming on you. I have seen guys take a complete running car apart to do a resto and decided not to finish but sell it.. I would say if you are going to do it then try to get most body work or metal work done on your own if you know how too. It helps to save money. Make a list of what you would need done or price a lot of places for certain parts depending on where you decide on starting on the car.Take a lot of pictures,bag and tag everything. I myself am working on my lemans and doing a on frame restoration but it can be overwhelming because its a lot to deal with. Its a lot of work and some parts are harder to get unless you find them on here lol.It all depends on your love and passion for these cars. I too will never sell this car.BTw Post some pics so we can see and get an idea of what your working with.

[Greg Reid]

Before you get too far into it, take photos of everything.
Tag, bag and sort everything...I mean every screw, nut and bolt. It will probably be years before you start putting the thing back together and you WILL forget a lot of it.
When you have taken a car completely apart, it really is amazing how something so complex could have been mass produced so efficiently.

[Mads575]

Originally Posted by mct37

Give us a little info: engine CI, auto or manual, bench or buckets, a/c, etc. what do you have from factory? What are ext / int colors?

mct37

Its hard to say because the engine was replaced so many times and before my time my uncle actually changed the interior. The engine was a 450 my uncle and step-dad put in then my step-dad removed it and replaced it with a 350 (I think the original engine). We have 3 engines laying around our yard that can be used but I don't know were to begin. The was drive able at one point in the past because I remember driving it myself but I dont know what happened because I took off to the Army. The interior was originally bucket seats with a console and he changed it to a bench seat. Also I believe the steering column was pulled out and changed because everything I see has the gear selector located in the center on the console but the car has it on the steering column.

Photos will follow tomorrow and I hope I get some good feed back.. Lol!!

[mct37]

Originally Posted by Mads575

mct37

Its hard to say because the engine was replaced so many times and before my time my uncle actually changed the interior. The engine was a 450 my uncle and step-dad put in then my step-dad removed it and replaced it with a 350 (I think the original engine). We have 3 engines laying around our yard that can be used but I don't know were to begin. The was drive able at one point in the past because I remember driving it myself but I dont know what happened because I took off to the Army. The interior was originally bucket seats with a console and he changed it to a bench seat. Also I believe the steering column was pulled out and changed because everything I see has the gear selector located in the center on the console but the car has it on the steering column.

Photos will follow tomorrow and I hope I get some good feed back.. Lol!!

Unusual to go from console to tree and from buckets to bench, normally the other way around.

Before you get too dirty, you should get some of the details about the factory setup from your VIN. Check either Fisher Body Manual or Pontiac Service Manual for details on what the VIN number represents. That will also enable you to see the production numbers for your particular setup. If you dont have any manuals, you can also search this 70-72 forum or the web for info on what the VIN numbers mean. You might want to get manuals if you dont have them ($30 - $40 on cd, you can print what you need or make binders).

greg's advice to take pics of everything is really critical and so is "70 Lemans" direction to bag and tag everything. As obvious as it might seem to go together at the time, life happens, a week or a month goes by and you'll kick yourself for not taking that extra time for pics and part and hardware identification. plus having the pics of before and after will be very gratifying.

[mct37]

Originally Posted by Mads575

mct37

Its hard to say because the engine was replaced so many times and before my time my uncle actually changed the interior. The engine was a 450 my uncle and step-dad put in then my step-dad removed it and replaced it with a 350 (I think the original engine). We have 3 engines laying around our yard that can be used but I don't know were to begin. The was drive able at one point in the past because I remember driving it myself but I dont know what happened because I took off to the Army. The interior was originally bucket seats with a console and he changed it to a bench seat. Also I believe the steering column was pulled out and changed because everything I see has the gear selector located in the center on the console but the car has it on the steering column.

Photos will follow tomorrow and I hope I get some good feed back.. Lol!!

You will have trouble posting pics due to file size. We all do. Everyone seems to have a different way to compact the file too. One way I learned from this forum is to upload pics to your hard drive, open the file in MS Paint, select "Image" (from toolbar), then select "Stretch / Skew" and reduce the % in the horizontal and vertical boxes (use same number for both) to say 60%, save to a different filename, reopen the file and check the file size. Actually takes longer to explain than to actually do this, its pretty straightforward.