[judger69]

OK. I bought a '69 #'s matching GTO Judge with a WS RA3 with good advice from the members on this forum. The problem is the block code is K088 which is more in line with a late Dec. or Jan. car. I see the K088's being installed in the Dec./Jan cars. The engine unit # seems to line up with the Late Dec. / Jan. cars too (thanks John for the awsome info on your website) but my body tag is 03A first week of March.

There has been some theories (mostly mine) that this block may be a VIN restamp & fraud. But then maybe it had a problem during initial start up and run in at the engine factory. It had to be fixed and then sent out with a later batch of engines.(of course the VIN wasn't stamped yet)

The block VIN stamp looks a little strange with the last # (5) being very deep in the block but gradually getting lighter and lighter through the #'s up to the first 2 & 9 & B being very hard to see. Looks like the VIN when struck was held a little crooked toward the last 5.

I took a measurement with a ruler and found the font size to be about 3.2 mm or so high.

Anybody have a stamp from a first week march Baltimore gto that can verify this VIN stamp size?

Any other thoughts? I welcome them all even if I don't agree.

Thanx

[muscle_collector]

i have a 69 judge convert ra3 auto and the dates on the heads and intake are Kxx8 it is a baltimore built car

[slowgto]

Not a restamp. This four month gap between the block date and car build date seems to be a Baltimore issue around this period. My Baltimore Judge has the same block date as yours, K088, and my build date is one week (or less) different than yours, 03B. Heads are J308. After I bought my car, I documented a few others like this.

My stamping is also like yours, as the first digits are light, and go deeper towards the end. This is common. I have had this on several cars. The thing to look for is that all the numbers are in a straight line.

I think your block is original, but you can also check:

-strip the paint off the VIN area to see if any other markings are there.
-rub the VIN with your fingers to feel for a low spot, where the other VIN was ground out.
-check the face of the block, with a metal ruler to see if the WS or VIN areas were ground off at an angle.
-strip the paint around the WS to see if any other stampings or marks are there.
-EUN number should be perfectly straight.
-heads and intake should be close to the block date.

If you ever have the blower motor cover off, you can check the firewall for the two VIN stamps, which Baltimore did.

[judger69]

Slowgto can I PM you?

Muscle-collector - What was the build date on your Judge? Are your VIN stamps like mine and slowgto with the bottom number deep in the block and the top 2 barely legible? Can I PM you?

I am thinking our EUN's should be close together, and that will help to confirm this is a legit block & VIN.

Thanx for all the replys so far.

[slowgto]

Our block dates are the same. Not sure of the EUN logic Pontiac used. Im not sure they are in numerical order, but mine is 0231693.

You can PM me, or email.
Doug

[GTO JOHN]

I concurr that it does not appear to be a restamp. I'd want to look at some other charachters in the vin like a 4 is there is one. I have several Baltimore WS blocks with the vin stamp gradually tapering off to being barely visible at the end of the vin. What is the EUN#? I have alot of data to cross reference with. In the end, though I would bet is it legit based on the 3 numbers you show in the photo the font looks correct. Just remembered I picked up another WS this summer early Baltimore vin and the casting date on block was '68, just forgot which month.

I would see what Bet Winner has to say also. If I recall correctly his WS is cast very early in Oct or Nov 68.

[GTO JOHN]

Originally Posted by slowgto

Our block dates are the same. Not sure of the EUN logic Pontiac used. Im not sure they are in numerical order, but mine is 0231693.

You can PM me, or email.
Doug

Doug, the eun were all sequential increasing throughout the production year. I have an A069 WS with an eun in the 042xxx range. They used the eun through the entire V8 line so 350, 400, 428 were all mingled together in the numbering sequence.

[muscle_collector]

if i remember right it is a 03B i know it is a march build.

[judger69]

Thanx for all the repies guys. I did PM bet winner who has a date 3 days from mine and an EUN 8000 away from mine. His is a 01A built car with a VIN from that time.

Slow GTO, Johnta1 both have close block dates and EUN's within 2000 of mine. Slow GTO's VIN was very close to mine and I didn't gets Johns, but I am convinced this 4 month window for the engines is true.

I even Emailed GM Canada Vintage services looking for an EUN. He told me they don't have the EUN's on their doc's.

My mind has been put to ease with this. You have convinced me this is correct. Thanx again to everyone who responded and I PM'd, I really appreciate it.