[Rugratman]

I was at a cruise tonight and some guy's MSD box crapped out.

Just for future reference, if that was to happen, how do you bypass it?
It's been a long time since I installed mine, not sure I remember what was what anymore.

[1966Lemans]

I've been in the process of hooking up my 6A for a little while (procrastination). I came up with a wiring scheme, by using some 2-conductor weatherproof connectors, to allow me to bypass the MSD box any time I wanted. See the attached sketch. In fact, I'm currently running with Female connector 2 connected to Male connector 4. But this shows you the basic MSD wiring and what you'd have to do to bypass it. Hope this helps.

--- Jay

[Sun Tuned]

Well it's easier to do if you still are using the points and using them to trigger the msd box.

If not and you/he/someone has the msd dist in place it would be another matter altogether, but not real hard.

You will have to have a control module/box to control the coil. Simply use a GM HEI 4 pin module and a good heat sink for the module and make a little harness to match up with the msd wiring in place already and voila! you'll now be able to enjoy happy motoring again.

SOP with me as far as recommendations go, and anyone that has an MSD they are using. Everyone with an MSD product should have one of them as a backup just in case.
It's not a matter of if it will puke, but simply a matter of when exactly.

But it will happen... I guarantee it.

[wheelspin]

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

Well it's easier to do if you still are using the points and using them to trigger the msd box.

If not and you/he/someone has the msd dist in place it would be another matter altogether, but not real hard.

You will have to have a control module/box to control the coil. Simply use a GM HEI 4 pin module and a good heat sink for the module and make a little harness to match up with the msd wiring in place already and voila! you'll now be able to enjoy happy motoring again.

SOP with me as far as recommendations go, and anyone that has an MSD they are using. Everyone with an MSD product should have one of them as a backup just in case.
It's not a matter of if it will puke, but simply a matter of when exactly.

But it will happen... I guarantee it.

I continue to see warnings about MSD failures, but I have driven and raced my three Pontiacs across the USA for the past 10 years and never experienced a single failure with the 6ALs, SS Blaster coils, or the RTR distributors (and the non-vacuum dizzy before it). I carry reasonable spares including a prewired 6AL, coil, and pickup, primarily due to warnings such as these. Is it only MSD boxes, or are other similar multi-fire boxes failure prone?

I'm curious, why do you predict failure? Are these boxes, and others like them limited to so many cycles or are they cooked by the underhood heat, inadequate grounding, or made to a price point below other similar devices?

[Sun Tuned]

I say heat, vibration, and guys welding on stuff without disconnecting other stuff first.

For the average guy carrying a spare MSD box is a little costly... seems everyone is running a 7al box thesedays.

Simple 4 pin HEI module gets cheap insurance you can get home if the inevitable oops does occur, as in this o.p. original dilemma.

No not just MSD boxes...all types of electronic items are this way not just dist related, but the MSD stuff seems to be at the front of the pak.

[Rugratman]

Can the MSD Ready to Run Distributers, be bypassed? Hooking it up direct?
I seem to remember at one point....long ago, Running a s MSD dizzy and no box.

[TheSilverBuick]

Yup typically easy to keep bypass stuff. If points, just wire up the points to the negative side of the coil. If HEI carry a 4-pin module (and little bit of heat sink grease) with harness to plug into the cap.

I'm running a MegaSquirt that is controlling a 6AL box (for the last 3+ years and 30,000-40,000 miles), and my back up plan is to simply connect the wire triggering the MSD box to the coil directly and hook up the laptop to the MegaSquirt and set it to control the coil directly. The laptop work will take less time than the wiring work.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

But it will happen... I guarantee it.

Hasn't happened to me is 25+years

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

Well it's easier to do if you still are using the points and using them to trigger the msd box.

If not and you/he/someone has the msd dist in place it would be another matter altogether, but not real hard.

You will have to have a control module/box to control the coil. Simply use a GM HEI 4 pin module and a good heat sink for the module and make a little harness to match up with the msd wiring in place already and voila! you'll now be able to enjoy happy motoring again.

SOP with me as far as recommendations go, and anyone that has an MSD they are using. Everyone with an MSD product should have one of them as a backup just in case.
It's not a matter of if it will puke, but simply a matter of when exactly.

But it will happen... I guarantee it.

If its electronic it will fail eventually. Some things more often than others. I've seen stuff that had no issues no warnings fail. Even nearby lightening( 1/4 mile?) and 2 days later be working fine and just quit. Coincidence? Who knows? ... never hurts to have a simple backup. Having a backup handy seems to lessen the chance anything does go wrong.

A couple weeks ago one of our fellow PY'rs broke down on I 24 near Manchester TN heading to Clarksville from Atlanta. By time I got to him a state trooper had helped him get a new battery so he could get off the road. No sign of charging system problem but his motor had shut down on him and cranking it over trying to resolve the no start ran the battery down.

Car started fine with new battery. He continued on to Clarksville and no problems. The following morning I'm drinking my coffee and hear my answer machine..." uh, Bruce, I'm broke down on I24 again, just past where it quit yesterday!"

This was interesting. I didnt have any MSD stuff but did have a points distributor and coil, even a set of wires. Brought an old ballast resistor along as well. MSD had quit. 2.8V where there should have been 12. He's had that MSD a long time. No prior hiccups.

The old point system got him home just fine. He's putting together an HEI. Will be using it to trigger a new MSD, but this time he'll have what he needs to run it as an HEI should the need arise. Stuff happens... usually at the most inconveniant place or time.

Roadside repairs when you're just over a rise on the interstate is a scary thing. What a way to catch up with old friends.

[Rugratman]

Could you plug in a "ready to run" dizzy? Bypassing the box?

[fastgto]

[QUOTE=Sun Tuned;4630936] and guys welding on stuff without disconnecting other stuff first.

Seen that done alot of times when people are welding up exhaust systems ...

[geeteeohguy]

I've run nothing but the stock points and condensor distributors in my GTO's for over 30 years without issue. They need to be maintained with periodic points replacement every few years, but they ignite the mixture just as well as the MSD and aftermarket electronics do, and are not prone to sudden failure.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

, but they ignite the mixture just as well as the MSD and aftermarket electronics do, and are not prone to sudden failure.

Catagorically false.

[geeteeohguy]

Yeah........right......

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Yeah........right......

I can prove it in 5 or less questions.That is, assuming you have the stones to answer them correctly.

[geeteeohguy]

I have seen documented proof on a dyno where a hot ticket MSD ignition was replaced with a stock points distributor for direct comparison...and there was no difference in performance. Again, this is in the "street" section, and this applies to street-driven vehicles. Bill, once again, you are misinformed and misguided. No surprise there.

[6T5 Cat]

Originally Posted by Rugratman

Could you plug in a "ready to run" dizzy? Bypassing the box?

Yep, the ready to run can be used with or without the box. I'm in the process of changing mine to a ready to run distributor without the box. The only time my car has stranded me was when the box stopped working. It won't happen again!

[Sun Tuned]

The RTR is just a smaller version of the "box" only inside the dist housing and with I believe a few less features that the bigger "boxes" offer.

Points distributors will in fact eclipse a Super stellar stem winding electronic deal several places along the rpm range. Usually by only a 1hp or 2hp difference thogh and certainly not anything measureable by your hiney meter. The electronic deal will reciprocate at certain places along that range as well and outdo the points setup also. I have seen this during testing done by the old RHS/Performance Distributors/ Dynotech testing in the early eighties. Was very surprising to see what happened. Same exact curve in both dists and that was only change.

The difference is in how long each could hold that performance without touching either. With the clear winner of that comparison, hands down going to the electronic, as there would be no dwell change as the points would wear in the electronic dist.

Food for thought....

Ever had a condenser zonk out on you??

Funny thing about electronics....
Once you let the smoke out of them,
You then gotta find someone that can put it back in, so the deal will work again.

[GTO JOHN]

I'm having similar problems with my car. Initially thought it was vapor lock or a fuel issue, however last night started the car cold after replacing the distributor module. Car idled for 8 mins then quit. Fuel filter and carb full of gas. Checked spark, was strong. Re-started car and let it idle until it quit after 5 mins. Checked spark right away- Nothing.

Running a 6AL, MSD Billet dist, Blaster coil. Cap & rotor are corroded but wouldn't give me spark I bet. Any suggestions where to start?

[geeteeohguy]

Sun Tuned, I agree with you 100%. My research shows the same results....points will wear, but if maintained, this is not an issue. The big advantage of electronic is lack of mechanical moving parts and the resulting wear and deradation in performance. A points distributor that is maintained can forego this issue. Of the thousands of cars I've tuned up over the decades, yes, I've had condensors fail....usually right out of the box, though. The old uniset was known for this (loose mounted condensor) Never had one fail on the road, though, in over 30 years and 100's of thousands of miles. I've been stranded with fuel system problems, but never with ignition problems with these obsolete old set ups. (knock wood!) I'm one of the few and far between that actually LIKES tuning up my cars every 12k miles or so, so standard ignition is fine with me.