[RA1John]

Was talking w/a friend I've known for a few years today and learned something about his past working experience I never knew before.

He worked at the Pontiac Engine Assembly Plant in '63-'64. (Building 8?)

This guy has an incredible detailed memory; Even drew me a diagram of how the build area was laid out then... sequence of build, etc.

He clearly remembers the start of GTO production and the 421 (including Super Duty) builds. Something I didn't know before... the 421s & Super Dutys were assembled in a separate area then manually carted into the main line where it was attached to the regular engine conveyor just before it went into the paint booth.

Lots of interesting details.

More to follow. LMK if you have any specific questions I can run by him.

[The Boss]

Ask him how far ahead parts were cast before they went to cars?

[Keith Seymore]

I think we already know the answer to that one, Chris.

9 days, on my car, between the engine cast date and completed vehicle ship date.

John - if you could scan and post some of the sketches you made that would be great. Can you PM me his name, to see if I know him?

K

[RA1John]

One interesting thing he did share was this...

On more than one ocassion, he assembled a block that was cast the same day. If that engine was destined to the Pontiac Assembly Plant, it was likely to be installed to the car within a few days. I'll be speaking w/Larry again either tomorrow or first thing next week. I've started writing down all these interesting things he's been sharing; Will post them and the diagram of the engine assembly area he drew/described.

[jmt455]

Yep, there could be VERY short lead times between cast dates and build dates at the Pontiac assembly plant. If your car was built at Baltimore or any other facility, the elapsed time from the major casting date to the vehicle assembly date can be much longer. (Up to several weeks, not hours or days...and at times, it could potentially stretch to MONTHS, depending on assembly plant inventory management techniques)

My wife worked at Pontiac for most of her GM career...until they closed the G body assembly plant in 1988 (IIRC).

Plant 8 was the engine plant; she spent a lot of time in that plant. As an industrial engineer, she remembers a lot of plant layout information, but was never involved much in the product details.

[c5farmer]

In this month's "Hemmings Classic Car" magazine, page 74, there is a story by Bud Bravick with interesting facts about working at Pontiac during the 1960s-'70s. Bud was a Job-setter. His most interesting comment:
"One of our unwritten employee benefits was that if you worked in the engine plant and ordered a new Pontiac, you could get the build date and engine number. The foreman would give you an hour or two off to follow your engine down the line. You could then put anything you wanted on it or pull it off into a repair bay and build it yourself.
Off course this meant that what happenend was that lots of employees who ordered a plain jane 389-cu.in. ended up with a fire breathing 400 cu. in. engine with HO camshaft and associated cylinder heads with larger valves and ports, and larger 4 barrel carburetors. No paper work was ever changed when these special employee cars got the works added, and I'm sure the the same went on at the final assembly department with the bodies. I'm certain that this didn't happen alot--but it wasn't unusual, either. Remember, we had 18,000 employees at Pontiac, so you do the math."

Has anyone ever come across one of these "employee specials"?

['ol Pinion head]

"Off course this meant that what happenend was that lots of employees who ordered a plain jane 389-cu.in. ended up with a fire breathing 400 cu. in. engine with HO camshaft and associated cylinder heads with larger valves and ports, and larger 4 barrel carburetors"

I would take that with a grain of salt. And where did these larger carburetors & larger port cylinder heads magically come from? I can see maybe some '67 670's being assembled with swirl polished valves, but bigger ports would require porting. Camshaft wise, I've disassembled what appeared to be factory assembled engines & the camshaft was not the right stamped code, but the cam was not bigger than what was supposed to be stock, instead it was smaller..

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by c5farmer

In this month's "Hemmings Classic Car" magazine, page 74, there is a story by Bud Bravick with interesting facts about working at Pontiac during the 1960s-'70s. Bud was a Job-setter. His most interesting comment:
"One of our unwritten employee benefits was that if you worked in the engine plant and ordered a new Pontiac, you could get the build date and engine number. The foreman would give you an hour or two off to follow your engine down the line. You could then put anything you wanted on it or pull it off into a repair bay and build it yourself.
Off course this meant that what happenend was that lots of employees who ordered a plain jane 389-cu.in. ended up with a fire breathing 400 cu. in. engine with HO camshaft and associated cylinder heads with larger valves and ports, and larger 4 barrel carburetors. No paper work was ever changed when these special employee cars got the works added, and I'm sure the the same went on at the final assembly department with the bodies. I'm certain that this didn't happen alot--but it wasn't unusual, either. Remember, we had 18,000 employees at Pontiac, so you do the math."

Has anyone ever come across one of these "employee specials"?

I followed both of my pickups down the line when they were built; the second one being an '87 model built Monday September 29, 1986.

I can assure you no shennanigans took place during that build

I got to the plant at 4:30 pm as the cab/box was coming down out of paint and into trim. I drove it off the line myself and directly to the shipping building, and told "Lloyd" that was my truck.

I left the plant at 1 am Tuesday morning and by 5 pm it was sitting at the dealership in Davison Michigan - 9 miles away.

(I still have it, by the way).

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

"Off course this meant that what happenend was that lots of employees who ordered a plain jane 389-cu.in. ended up with a fire breathing 400 cu. in. engine with HO camshaft and associated cylinder heads with larger valves and ports, and larger 4 barrel carburetors"

I would take that with a grain of salt. And where did these larger carburetors & larger port cylinder heads magically come from? I can see maybe some '67 670's being assembled with swirl polished valves, but bigger ports would require porting. Camshaft wise, I've disassembled what appeared to be factory assembled engines & the camshaft was not the right stamped code, but the cam was not bigger than what was supposed to be stock, instead it was smaller..

I did hear a similar story involving Dimitri T, who attempted to execute this "employee benefit" - but they miscounted and could only stand by and watch while his beautiful handbuilt motor went into a station wagon about two cars ahead of his...

[projectfolly]

A friend of mine worked at Pontiac on the engine line. One of his jobs was installing cams. Every once in a while, just for fun, he would slip a Ram Air or HO cam into a 350 or 2bbl 400 engine.
He smiled while telling me that a few people got base engine cars that probably ran "just a little better for some reason".