[Ducks Goat]

Originally Posted by floffy

That's not realy fair, he's trying to help everyone. You can make the decision for yourself, get the headers soon and wait what happens with the other part of the money or keep bitching about coating and get nothing. ( i don't mean it as harsh as stated here) but like others say now you can get a set and wait after that. Something is better then nothing.,

Daan

You wait on somthing for 6 yrs then tell me what's fair, those 6 yrs of lies give me the right to bitch. We will still have to pay more now to get the uncoated ones, because I'm sure he can't afford to ship them on his own.

[sphynx88]

Originally Posted by Ducks Goat

You wait on somthing for 6 yrs then tell me what's fair, those 6 yrs of lies give me the right to bitch. We will still have to pay more now to get the uncoated ones, because I'm sure he can't afford to ship them on his own.

6 years of lies for me as well... this week actually. Bitching won't get us any closer.

[Ducks Goat]

Bitching may not get us any closer to fixing the problem, but neither has being an honest paying customer, has it?

[crustysarge]

But do you guys really think other people will take the risk after this? If I was just coming in or had been watching, there is no way I would send money. The gamble that others will pay into this to bail us out is just not going to happen IMO.

Like I said, I mailed a letter to AMEX and my bank today, AMEX has a proven record of solving in the client's favor even after long periods. I will take my chances with the credit card company and my bank who issued it.

Ron is probably a nice guy, but let's face it, where is he and why does he have to have a spokesperson?

It is very simple, refund my cash and mail me the parts I sent or finsih my headers and mail them to me as promised almost a year ago. Nothing more, nothing less.

[aronhk_md]

lfdsteve.....I honestly dont know how much cash is needed. Figure X number of sets (I dont know the exact #) that need coating, and then shipping. But I just dont see how a business partner is going to help at this point. Or I should say....how it would work for both sides.

Daan....thanks my friend. Appreciate the support.

fish_craze............working on finding out how this might work for you.....and the others that have emailed.

People who dont agree to this idea arent left in the cold. Ron plans to deliver all that were ordered regardless. Its just a matter of when. I cant argue with anyone who tries to get their money back through other methods. Its just not what I'm going to do. I want a set of headers and still think I'm going to get them.

[aronhk_md]

rcrta...................there are headers built. The pics I just posted were taken a while ago, I just never thought to post pics of pieces before. Ron said to me he has headers built and he has never lied to me. If you are interested in getting them uncoated.....email me as I suggested a page or two ago and I will add you to the list. Then you'll see if the credit ever works out as cash or not.

[floffy]

Originally Posted by crustysarge

But do you guys really think other people will take the risk after this? If I was just coming in or had been watching, there is no way I would send money. The gamble that others will pay into this to bail us out is just not going to happen IMO.

Like I said, I mailed a letter to AMEX and my bank today, AMEX has a proven record of solving in the client's favor even after long periods. I will take my chances with the credit card company and my bank who issued it.

Ron is probably a nice guy, but let's face it, where is he and why does he have to have a spokesperson?

It is very simple, refund my cash and mail me the parts I sent or finsih my headers and mail them to me as promised almost a year ago. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm waiting on a price for the stainless headers and wont have a problem of sending the money, i believe in Ron and in his product.
If Ron want to **** you guys dry in the ass he never would come back to the forums. All this bitching will get everyone one thing....NO HEADERS and a lot more to complain about.( ****ed up doug's or other headers that won't fit)
Read what Aron is saying to you and try to work with him / them. after 6 years no headers what is 4 or 5 weeks?? i can understand that you want to know something and that is what Ron is doeing wrong, he has to give more information to the guys he owns headers to.

If you want to know stuff just PM Aron and get things resolved instead of fear mongering on these forums.

Daan

[David Holmberg]

Things are getting done, and there are no surprises. Communication was never one of Ron's best areas. He IS building headers, he is shipping headers, but he's not Hooker he's one guy.

Besides, I'd rather have him spend his time building headers.

[crustysarge]

I am not fear mongering. I paid and want what I paid for. All I said is if I was walking into this right now I would not give up any money. I don't believe Ron is a crook and did not suggest that. I do believe he is in over his head but that does not permit him to not communicate and then go through someone who has no vested economical interest in his business to pass on information that may or may not be valid or come to fruition. Aron simply can't be held responsible if the deal worsens.

It is my money so I can say what I want about it as long as I am not slandering.

Speaking of my money, I did take a gamble because when I sent my cash to Ron in Nov 2010 this story was already ongoing and I took a risk because I wanted to believe he would come through and make good for all of us. Then others who made orders after us got their headers? You are nuts if you think that is an acceptable business practice. I'd like to see someone go to a retailer and pay for the product, wait for extended periods, no manager talking to you, and then some guy who does not work there comes along and says "the company took some more orders and they can't give you yours but those folks who just arrived can have theirs". You would frickin' explode, admit it.

I am overseas and the coating issue is more complex for me. I can't just go down to Luigi's ceramic coating shop and pay $225. Would be more like 500 Euros ($750). So, that means if I take an uncoated set I have to pay to ship to someone else for the coating and work that deal, and then pay to have them shipped to me. I don't have UPS, only USPS to military APO and it ain't cheap and 90% of the people won't use the post office so that becomes an issue.

Therefore, for me, my only options are get my money back or get the product. Quite frankly I wish had went to my CC company 6 months ago and been finished with all of this.

And, why should I work with someone I don't know when it involves my money and a business transaction between Tribal Tubes? That just convolutes the whole deal even more. I believe Aron has good intentions but so did Ron and all I have from Ron is unkept promises and no communcation since March.

[aronhk_md]

crustysarge.....I'll tell you what. I cant do this for every person...I just dont have time. If you want to send my paypal the money to coat your headers (when Ron tells me he has YOURS, because I dont know for sure who has headers in the pile of finished at this moment), I will call the coater there and arrange to have him coat your one set for me/you, leaving Ron out of it. Then they can go in a box, and overseas to you. At that time the credit you have will remain with Ron and hopefully work out one of the 2 ways I mentioned earlier.

[Larry Navarro]

Originally Posted by crustysarge

......Then others who made orders after us got their headers? You are nuts if you think that is an acceptable business practice.

He does have a point. I don't see those guys lurking around here anymore.

[aronhk_md]

This isnt normal business practice. It has been a stopgap effort to keep the doors open. As mentioned there was really zero profit built into trying to get the old header orders out with the new. To do it, the bills still had to be paid and that required selling some headers. The only way to sell a few headers was to say.....here they are finished, available right now.

Is anyone claiming this is the right or good way to do things? No. But I think we have beaten that point to death.

No.......I'm not part of Tribal Tubes, or involved in any way other than as someone trying to help out. Crustysarge...you dont want me to help, or dont trust me enough to try me...I understand. I'm not here to force you. I only tried to make myself available as another possible solution.

Larry..............what exactly do you mean by.... "others lurking" ? Not being a frequent poster on this site doesnt give them some sort of negative factor. fishe craze who just posted above had ZERO posts before the last couple here, and yet he is one of the orders waiting for quite some time. Plenty of guys just sort of hang out and watch. Some only look here occasionally. There are 6755 active members, but only 153 are online right now.

[1971WARBIRD]

i am one of those that has been watching. i hope everything works out in the end for Ron and all of us Pontiac guys really. it is a great product that had problems(i got burnt as a business partner several years ago, where the other guy pretty much just cut and ran and i got stuck paying the bills, at least Ron is trying.
enough of that, like you have said it is beat to death.

i want a couple sets in the near future, but have been waiting since i heard there may be stainless in the future and that is what i want for my SD. figure it will be some time before he can try to bend any of those up and come up with prices. would be nice if there was a ball park number.

[aronhk_md]

1971WARBIRD........those SS headers arent really that far off. He has messed with it during down time between other things. He already has the flanges and tubing. But he cant really do anything until he gets past the current hump. Ballpark figures for the SS is going to be $750-$800 if I understand correctly. A lot of that figure will go toward purchasing the 3 Y pieces on each header.

[Larry Navarro]

...."those guys lurking"......by that I mean the ones who are referred by Crustysarge.
those who bought headers late in the game and recieved them within a 2 or 3 weeks.
They have no reason for input now but tune into the continuing drama of this thread.

[aronhk_md]

Larry, there are lots of guys lurking who have no need to input anything here but do. You yourself have no money invested at this point. 73TA has no horse in this race, but has put his thoughts in here. Its not just new guys, or guys with low posts. Its a free country and obviously you can all have your say.

The reasons behind selling headers AHEAD of guys who are waiting has been clearly stated. Its just to keep the doors open. Its not the RIGHT way, or BEST way to run a business. Ron is sick of it all, and if he had ANY reasonable way to just finish it all up this afternoon or tomorrow............he would do it. In a heartbeat.

Cant say I envy him at all. This has been hanging over his head a long time, and I have to say it takes some guts to keep trying when you arent getting anything out of it.

[gearbanger]

Check these out. I finally got through the cruising season and decided to stick the tri-y's on for a test fit before coating. These are the coolest headers I have ever had. Basically the passenger side header put itself on. I have incredible clearance everywhere.

The drivers side header was still pretty easy, but I had to take the starter off and the z-bar out obviously and I had to raise the engine about a 1/2". No big deal, still only took about 15 minutes to install the DS header. I think I may not have had to raise it if it were a stock bellhousing, but I have a lakewood scattershield and it is pretty big. The outside starter bolt is a little tight, I had to use a long allen wrench socket to reach in paster the header to get it, but again no big deal. There is alot of clearance for the starter and the cables.

These headers do not even hang as low as the transmission does. The bellhousing is way lower and the oilpan is even a little lower than the actual secondary tubes. The collectors actually have to go downward to make it under the crossmember! The drivers side header collector needs to point about an inch toward the inside to be perfect but it will work fine the way it is. I am really happy with them. They are ready for the coater.

[SD421]

NICE!!!!!

[aronhk_md]

Thanks for the great pics gearbanger. They do look pretty sweet. Now we just need to get them to everyone who has paid.

Keep in mind that the little tweeks that might make it 100% perfect might not be possible because they have been made to fit more than 1 car. Still, they look great. You dont have any pics of your old setup to compare do you? What was on there before?

[gearbanger]

I dont think I really have any comparison pics but I had a set of Mad Dog 2" headers with 3.5" collectors. They are awesome headers but they are BIG. They are really close to everything and they hang down pretty far especially on the drivers side. My car sits really low and they hit the ground on speed bumps a few times. They probably make more power but, I am willing to sacrifice for clearance and looks. My gut feeling is that the tri-ys will be better across a large rpm range than the 2" anyway. Probably lose a few peak ponies to the 2" though.

I was going to put the v-band connectors on them like the turbo boys use, but I have decided to use the stainless band clamps and keep everything as flat and low profile as possible. I am going to have to modify my exhaust pretty heavily to get it tucked up the way I want it, but it will be worth it for the looks from the side shot.