[CATBIRD]

I've read so much about the pros and cons of using this additive in our old cars, that my head almost exploded. I decided that I'd use it in my old cars anyway. Cheap insurance and peace of mind, even if it turns out to be snakeoil.

I never gave my daily driver a thought though. I've got a 2000 Silverado with the 5.3 engine. Does anyone know if this engine has roller lifters or not?.....John

[67drake]

Roller

[SRR]

Pretty much everything after 1996 will be roller.

ZDDP is NOT snake oil.

[salem1912]

I use STP,cheap protection new or old.

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by salem1912

I use STP,cheap protection new or old.

STP oil treatment? I could not find the ZDDP page for this product.

[salem1912]

Originally Posted by PMD1969

STP oil treatment? I could not find the ZDDP page for this product.

I Emailed them and they replied (with a couple stickers) I'll look, I think it's on the bottle.


Thank you for contacting us about STP Oil Treatment.

Our STP Oil Treatment contains the zinc anti-wear agent ZDDP. This ingredient was once found in most motor oils. If you add one 15 ounce bottle to four to five quarts of oil, it will provide the same protection as the older motor oils once provided. Many classic car owners with flat tappet cam motors use our product for this reason.

I would be happy to send you some STP stickers you should receive them in 7-10 business days.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Again, thank you contacting us.

Sincerely,

Patti Copper
Consumer Response Representative
Consumer Services

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by salem1912

I Emailed them and they replied (with a couple stickers) I'll look, I think it's on the bottle.


Thank you for contacting us about STP Oil Treatment.

Our STP Oil Treatment contains the zinc anti-wear agent ZDDP. This ingredient was once found in most motor oils. If you add one 15 ounce bottle to four to five quarts of oil, it will provide the same protection as the older motor oils once provided. Many classic car owners with flat tappet cam motors use our product for this reason.

I would be happy to send you some STP stickers you should receive them in 7-10 business days.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Again, thank you contacting us.

Sincerely,

Patti Copper
Consumer Response Representative
Consumer Services

Well at least you got stickers.

Thanks for posting that info.

[dennis kirban]

Here is a topic I am very well versed in.

Here is the scoop.....every time the API comes out with a new oil formula they have been gradually dropping the ppm of zddp which stands for a big long chemical term. SM oil and now SN oil has about 800 ppm of zddp. In 1988 the SF oil contianed 1,800 ppm. ZDDP is a lubricant that has been in ol for 50 plus years.

Where the problem surfaces is when you have a high performance engine as you have extreme pressure points in your valve train and is also quite critical at break in.

Some oils that do not have the API rating and claim to have higher amounts of zddp concentrate do but how much they have is in doubt because they simply fail to say how much they have.

The product that Performance Years Ames Year One and others sell is a simply 4 ounce bottle of zddplus which when added evry oil change to a 4-6 quart oil change brings the levels back to 1,800 ppm. This way you can continue to use whatever oil conventional or synthitic you have always used with zero worries.

Remember wear translates into metal particles in your engine and that spells big money.

Our company sells to major companies this product. We sell to Erson Cam and Crower cam....two companies that would not buy it if it was not needed and would not buy it if they had any doubts whatsoever that it was not the simpliest and best solution to the zddp issues ( we sell to other cam companies as well but those two are ones most readers would be familar with it. (We did a private label for Erson cams).

Their is nothing in the 4 ounce bottle that was not in the oil originally. It was developed by a close personal friend of mine in the turbo Buick world because the turbo buick (Grand national 1986-1987) was the last high performance car that still used a flat tappet set up).

Product has been available for 3 years...

Remember its 4 ounces it is not like you are putting in 12 ounces of say STP or EOS which really may delute the levels.

I am not the brains behind this product but the people that are really have done their homework....my company is simply the main sales company. The reason they have cut down the amounts of zddp is because the EPA has determined it damages cataltic converters which now have 100,000 mile warranties and they "claim" roller set ups do not need it.

We are all smart enough to know the government doesn't care about older cars. Some of you remember when you could buy 100 proof octane gas.....when things change graduallly it is not that noticeable. Check out those candies that are 25 cents and the size of them compared to several years ago.

The fuel is one such situation. Don Garlits is the spokesperson behind the zddplus product. Even comp cams now has a special oil. I am not knocking other products merely pointing out that the issue exists and that is why you see so many different oils on the market. However if they have the API star burst on the back stands for American Petroluem Industry (I think) it can only contain 600-800 ppm of zddp.



denniskirban@yahoo.com

Ps I am not trying to take sales away from any company as the sug retail is the same no matter where you buy it. Its cheap insurance especially if your engine is modified and you drive it hard. The man behind it owns the most Turbo Buicks in the world and has the largest collection of turbo Buick parts that he never sells. I have known this person for over 20 years.

[salem1912]

If you have about three days to read this site has some good info on ZDDP http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html or like Dennis says get some from PY

[PMD1969]

Okay. So adding this ZDDP to my 02' Ford 5.4L V8 90k miles and Mobil 1 10W30 oil will only help and will not effect the cat?

[dennis kirban]

to answer above on the truck ok to add it because when your truck was new in 2002 SM oil was not yet out it was probably SH or so which still had more zddp in it than the current SM oil.

We have 13 different tech briefs on this topic done by the engineers behind zddplus. Unfortunately, my skills are not mechanical but more on the sales side. I do put it in my 2002 V8 Ford which has I believe the 4.6 engine.

Plenty of products exist as additives and as other oils offering more zddp or simply state they add more zinc....our product that is handled by all the major GTO/Pontiac suppliers is perhaps the easiest solution when its only 4 ounces and you can use whatever oil you have always used with no worries. You can't improve on what we offer unless it sold for less than $10 a bottle.

Erson and Crower Cams would have no interest in this product unless it worked and they researched it before jumping on board. (I sell direct to both of these companies).

So the bottom line is if you want your engine to survive is it worth $10 to protect the internals of your flat tappet Pontiac engine?

denniskirban@yahoo.com

even comp cam now offers their own brand of oil to solve the issues as does eldebrock....both accounts I tried to land with no success...

[Hammer76LE]

In working in a lab as a lab technician for a Specialty Chemical Additive Company (The Lubrizol Corp) for 8 years and understand the properties and principals of ZDDP, and I am not a salesman, but a lab rat. I can tell you that the misconception here is not just the amount of zinc added to engine oils but the amount of phosphorus as well. (i.e. Zinc and Phosphorus = ZDDP in its well known chemical makeup form). Flat tappet engines have huge lobe to tappet pressures and the ZDDP has great pressure resister properties (remember it's not just zinc alone...it's Zinc and Phosphorus make up ZDDP and the percentages they make up).

A little history:
Back in the early 80's ZDDP levels were in the 1800ppm caliber in all engine oils but zddp was very expensive. The "industry" wanted to get away from the high pressures from flat tappet cams and the price tag of the additive ZDDP. This was around the time roller rockers were introduced with less stringent load to tappet pressures of its earlier predecessor, thus saving the industry money when making engine oils and changing, as someone stated here, the API oil standards. The industry also moved to a more "ashless" types of mineral base oils with far more focus on detergents and dispersant to keep engine oils cleaner for longer periods of time.

I do not consider myself an expert in this area but I did learn a great deal about industry standards, viscosity changes, acidity levels in engine oils that sit for long periods of time (change your oil BEFORE you put your car away for winter as you would not believe the acid levels in your oil from just once season of driving, it could actually rust out your engine oil pan over time), flat tappet load testing.

I hope this sheds a light on the subject. But ZDDPlus is one of the "better" products known on the market. The issue is still how many ppm of ZDDP do you have in your oil as our cars perform well with about 1500ppm - 1800ppm of ZDDP contained in them. There were a few oils that still contained high levels of ZDDP in already. Brad Penn oil is one....you can purchase this oil and it already contains the required amount of ZDDP in the engine oil. Read this here: http://penngrade1.com/Zinc.aspx It may be expensive but it is good insurance knowing your cars internal components are going to work at their best with the required amount of ZDDP.

[dennis kirban]

More comments.....I appreciate the above posting gives a more detailed explanation than I did.

ZDDP does stand for the molecule that is formed and like it has been stated it is not just the zinc content. The product we represent and that is carried by most of the big Pontiac players is one of the best options if you desire to keep using whatever brand of oil you have always used.

Years ago most of us myself included never paid much attention to the API code system. Afterall oil was always supposed to be backwards compatible every time they updated their "formula". That API code is like a date code.....

Oils that don't carry that API certifications do not have to meet that PPM of zddp requirements.

Another thing to keep in mind is that zddp (ppm) depletes at a faster rate for the first thousand miles of driving....meaning if the oil you are using only has 1,400 or 1,500 ppm to start with it can be marginal after a thousand miles or so IF you have a high performance with the flat tappet engine.

Our product has been used by Dove engineering which makes roller rockers for many major cam companies...they have used our product in the engine challenge series and it has saved their engine. (I have proof they use it).

The person behind our product mostly did it to protect his vast car collection and has been a customer of ours for 20 plus years in the turbo buick world. A short article on him appears in I believe the latest issue of Hot Rod.

My connection has been in the mail order department and that is why it is mostly available by mail order..it is very very tough to crack the retail store market unless you have more than one product. It is available from Eastwood, and soem of the biggest names in the various different car lines such as two biggest Studebaker companies, Corvair, early Ford companies etc.

The trademark name plays right off the product. My buddy did conduct a test awhile ago....as he was curious how much zddp is in the factory oil in a new Corvette. PPM was 3,000!!!!

Castrol oil even admitted on their website awhile ago that the oil is not backwards compatible and the reason being is the drop in zddp concentration levels. I have spoken at various national meets on the subject.

Three years ago their was a lot of non believers as it was mostly engine rebuilders that knew about the problems. At first it was thought it was th poorly made over seas lifters etc as no one suspected something as common as it being motor oil. It got so bad and even today some engine rebuilders refuse to build a flat tappet engine or if they do they will only warranty it...if you use a specific oil or product such as zddplus with each oil change.

The highest level zddp levels was was 1,800 back around the SG API marking which was when the turbo Buick was available in 1987.

Again I am not trying to give a sales pitch or push a certain product but keep in mind this product was developed by a person who has an engineer background and a huge car collection and not a oil company. It was not easy in the beginning to even reach the right people at Erson cams and Crower to have them consider this product since neither company had any idea who I was.

denniskirban@yahoo.com

I think I have the info at work as to the codes and when they came oil. Diesel oils use a different code system. Ironically, in the beginning of these problems magazine articles recommend diesel oils as they had higher leverls of zddp. Problem is they have stuff for soot control etc you do not want to put in your gas engine.

Now diesel oils have the same issues as their oil gets changed...just in a different cycle than the oil for gas engines. Certain race oils of course have higher levels problems with them is you need to change them frequently.

So options exist...the important thing is, you simply do not use any SM or SN oil in a high performance flat tappet engine...remember wear happens gradually, and when it does its too late.


denniskirban@yahoo.com

the parent company is located in North Carolina. This guys play room is unbelievable....not only does he have a down draft paint booth.....an in ground dyno, but every possible Kent Moore tool etc that GM made....and tool boxes like they use at Nascar. In the Buick world his turbo buick parts collection is the largest outside of GM.

[Hammer76LE]

Originally Posted by dennis kirban

Another thing to keep in mind is that zddp (ppm) depletes at a faster rate for the first thousand miles of driving....meaning if the oil you are using only has 1,400 or 1,500 ppm to start with it can be marginal after a thousand miles or so IF you have a high performance with the flat tappet engine.

Very well put Dennis, thanks for mentioning this as I forgot to mention it. Nice team work on this post. Thank you.