[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by The Champ

David

In my first post - I made this comment about buying a Toyota at this time:



I also made a suggestion, not a demand:



I didn't disparage Toyota. I posted the truth about their continuing sales slump and the fact that they are actively discounting their products instead of the old "We are Toyota, we sell everything and dont have to discount" attitude that Old Blue posted.

If you want a Toyota - it should be bargain time. That is how I'd approach a new Toyota purchase at this time. Go ahead and pay sticker (or close to it) if you want to follow Old Blue's lead.
I was really trying to help.

Why do you need to be smart? Did I post anything about paying sticker? Did you miss the comment about being educated? I like how you always try and turn things around Champ.

I have to ask the same question that David asked because you still didnt offer what he he was looking for: Advice on buying a new Toyota.

By the way, your estimates may be correct for your part of the country but in this area Toyota sells everything they can get on thier lots. One of my best friends is a SM for the dealer that I bought mine at and based on the conversation we had a couple of weeks ago, he's doing very well.

[David Jones]

Champ? Somewhere I said you were disparaging Toyota? I believe the flag has wrapped around your head and choked the oxygen off to your brain.......

[goatless]

Alright boys, let's pull this back from the "imports vs. GM" direction it's heading in.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Old Blue 66

By the way, your estimates may be correct for your part of the country but in this area Toyota sells everything they can get on thier lots. One of my best friends is a SM for the dealer that I bought mine at and based on the conversation we had a couple of weeks ago, he's doing very well.

You are just a 4 hour drive from me. Is your friend worth thousands of dollars extra to you when you buy a car?

Just asking...

If the dealer won't compete in a reasonable manner - I shop elsewhere. I fully understand that a dealership needs to make a profit, but I don't feel a need to support anyone's filet mignon lifestyle.

FWIW - I said sticker - or close to it - which is exactly what your own words implied.

Originally Posted by David Jones

Champ? Somewhere I said you were disparaging Toyota?

Where did I imply that you said I was disparaging Toyota? I was just pointing out that I wasn't saying anything bad about Toyota products here. Unlike some comments made by you and others about other products.

For my part, I was attempting to help you and keep things civil.

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by David Jones

I'm pushing her to look at a Toyota Venza and there is one that interests me at the local Toyota dealership (less than a 1/4 mile away) that stickers at $38,000 even. Walking in with money, how much should it sell for? Is there a reliable website that lists dealer cost/holdback etc that would help me with coming up with an offer?

This was my question Champ. Up until you came up to rescue the thread things were going pretty well.

How have you answered my question for me?

[The Champ]

FWIW - spelling out a fair deal on a Toyota Venza 6 cyl with "Preferred Premium Accessory Package"...

MSRP = $30,142.00

Invoice = $27,386.00

"True Market Value" for Pleasant Grove, AL (per Edmunds) = $27,773.00

The "True Market Value" shows a regional adjustment for Pleasant Grove of -$207.00, which is already reflected in the price above.

Elgin, IL would be less than $100.00 more because of regional adjustments.

I would not pay a dime over what Edmunds is saying is the TMV - it's year end closeout time and the dealer will still be getting his holdback. I'd probably be looking for a deal at invoice - based on the current sales slump by Toyota nationwide.

And before you start feeling sorry for the dealer - he's making much more than what appears to be a $300.00 profit on the sale at TMV because of the dealer holdback.

If you are not familar with dealer holdback's - from Edmund's:

Now the twist: with the introduction of holdbacks some years ago, most manufacturers inflated the invoice prices for every vehicle by a predetermined amount (2-3% of MSRP is typical). The dealer pays that inflated amount when it buys the car from the manufacturer. But later, at predetermined times (usually quarterly), the manufacturer reimburses the dealer for that excess amount. This is the "holdback," so named because funds are "held back" by the manufacturer and released only some time after the vehicle is invoiced to the dealership.

Why the sleight-of-hand you might ask? Because holdbacks can benefit dealers in three ways:

1.Dealerships borrow money to finance cars based on an invoiced amount that includes the holdback. So the higher the invoiced amount, the more the dealership can borrow from its lender.

2.Inflating the dealership's "cost" can have the effect of increasing profit, since sales personnel are paid commissions based on the "gross profit" of each sale. Holdbacks have the effect of lowering the gross profit and thus the sales commissions.

3.Holdbacks enable dealerships to advertise "invoice price" sales and sell their vehicles at or near invoice and still make hundreds of dollars on the transaction.

Toyota holdback is 2% of invoice - so the dealer would make around $550.00 selling this Venza at invoice.

My Dad spent 45+ years in the car business. I am very familar with how the system works.

Edit - I thought you'd posted a price of $30,000. The above info was meant to answer your question in detail. Build your exact car at edmunds and check on the results for TMV and Invoice. Offer invoice.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by The Champ

You are just a 4 hour drive from me. Is your friend worth thousands of dollars extra to you when you buy a car?

Just asking...

If the dealer won't compete in a reasonable manner - I shop elsewhere. I fully understand that a dealership needs to make a profit, but I don't feel a need to support anyone's filet mignon lifestyle.

FWIW - I said sticker - or close to it - which is exactly what your own words implied.



Where did I imply that you said I was disparaging Toyota? I was just pointing out that I wasn't saying anything bad about Toyota products here. Unlike some comments made by you and others about other products.

For my part, I was attempting to help you and keep things civil.

What??

Now you suposedly know who much I paid for my car?? The Chamop knows everything. Do you know who shot JFK too?

Just for the record, I bought mine 10 months used right off the truck from Toyota's "executive" program. Some factory rep dove my car for the first 10,000 miiles. And I know I didnt pay too much.

If I were you, Id take Davids advice about the flag.

[David Jones]

Thanks Champ.
I believe if you'll look back Edmunds had already been mentioned a few times when you jumped in to save the thread.
Your Dad sold Toyota's?

[Mr_GTO]

Check out the Equinox. I'm still loving my '10 LTZ and it's loaded and I got it for less than the price for that Toyota. Mine's a AWD/V6/NAV/dual DVD TV's/Chrome Wheels.

[David Jones]

sigh..........

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by David Jones

sigh..........

so you don't even want to look?

[David Jones]

You're assuming I hadn't weighed the possibilities BEFORE I posted this thread?

You might have also taken time to actually READ the thread, specifically #14 I believe.

Much appreciated though.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by David Jones

You're assuming I hadn't weighed the possibilities BEFORE I posted this thread?

You might have also taken time to actually READ the thread, specifically #14 I believe.

Much appreciated though.

So what was the last year GM car that you purchased?

[goatless]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

So what was the last year GM car that you purchased?

Does it matter? He clearly stated he is not in the market for a GM vehicle right now.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by goatless

Does it matter? He clearly stated he is not in the market for a GM vehicle right now.

So I can't ask a simple question? http://www.venzaownerz.com/ good sight for them. Of course toyota are made by the right hand of god so there are never any issues with them....good luck with the purchase.

[disc0monkey]

I am going to recommend looking at a BMW X3, even a base model is beautiful, safe and reliable. Best car I ever owned.
Thats my white one behind the WS6 in my sig

At the same time my dad just picked up a '11 Tacoma, very nice improvements over the first gens.

[Kyflier]

Hey disc0, did you look at the Volvo XC60 before you bought the X3?

[disc0monkey]

No I didn't, back in 2006 I was in college I got a phone call on a Friday I got a good job, that Sunday found a screamin lease deal in the paper. Drove down to the dealer and pointed at the add and said give me this. haha. I loved it so much I bought it at the end of the lease.

[Kyflier]

Cool, the XC60 wasn't out then, came out in 2010. Sorry David, didn't mean to hijack your thread

[69goatboy]

Originally Posted by David Jones

We have considered financing but the jury is out on that at this moment.

We all know to keep an eye on the lot lizard, but it's the dealer's finance guy that you need to keep two eyes on. For he is guy that can stick it to you in ways that will not be realized until long after you leave the lot.

If you choose the finance route, use your own bank or credit union.

Good luck on whatever you and yours decide to do.