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#1
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Checking centerline on a Summit 2802 cam...need help
Looking for someone that is familiar with the summit 2802 cam. I checked the centerline and with it installed straight up I come up with 114. Since the cam card does not say what the centerline should be I am lost. I have read on here some one said to install it at 108 which I think should be about right. Anyone have any experience? Also cam card says intake should open at 3 degrees BTDC @.005 When I check I get the intake opening at 27 degrees BTDC. That seems off a lot. Also specs are given at .005 not .050 which is normal. I can go ahead and advance the cam 6 but I was just curious what other people have found using this cam. I have one of the dreaded 9 key-way timing sets so I don't know what I will get into when I start trying to advance the cam using that thing. The car is 70 Judge RA III, all stock. I kept the 10.5 compression. Dave at SD Performance did the heads. They have a little bit of work done to them but nothing radical, mostly just a good clean up with all new stainless ferrera valves. Thanks for any help.
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#2
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I have basically the same set up, 70 Judge, RA III basically stock #12 heads with ferrea valves. I installed the 2802 straight up. Seems to run just fine.
I never really understood why a cam needed to be installed outside of the way it was manufactured. |
#3
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There are Manufacturers tolerances for parts they make. If the slot for the keyway is off a tad but within tolerance and the same for the timing gears and crank gear, then when added up can screw up the cam timing. The last cam I installed I used offset keys and moved the 3 way crankgear get to get it right. You don't have to do it and the car will run ok, but why not get the most out of your money and work?
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The Following User Says Thank You to track73 For This Useful Post: | ||
#4
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Quote:
It shows the intake centerline as 109 ATDC Karl |
#5
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#6
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OK, makes sense. I guess next time I do a cam I'll degree it in.
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#7
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A1 How does that cam idle? Does it have much of a lope? My other Judge has the pontiac oem 744 cam and it has a good idle, just a little lope, enough to let you know that there is some muscle under the hood. I was hoping the 2802 would be like that.
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#8
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All cams should be drgreed to verify the installed position. I've had plenty of timing chain keyways off.
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The Following User Says Thank You to AG For This Useful Post: | ||
#9
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Cliff I know you have probably ran the summit 2802. How does it compare to the crower 90619?
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#10
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Good question.
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#11
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I've only ran the 2802 in 455s, and there wasn't much lope at all. I'd imagine it would be a little more noticeable in a 400
__________________
"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National |
#12
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I have it in a 400 with a tri power. It’s exactly as you described- just enough to let you know it’s there. Obviously sounds best when cold but when it’s warmed up you can still hear it sitting at a light.
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#13
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Just out of curiosity what lifters are you running?
__________________
468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#14
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I ran that cam in a 428. Installed at 107 ICL. Used Johnson lifters on it.
It idled baby smooth and made 14 inches of vacuum at 5000 ft elevation. Ran "ok" was all done by 5000 rpm. About what you would expect from a 224 @.050 cam in a 428. |
#15
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"Cliff I know you have probably ran the summit 2802. How does it compare to the crower 60916?"
The 2802 is a "baby" cam in a 400 build with 9.5 or higher compression and I don't consider it enough cam for a larger CID build. It might be OK in a 455 with 7.7-8.5 to 1 compression but for higher compression 455 builds I woln't use a cam with less than 230 @ .050" duration and even some of those I've used are pretty "mild" in the big 455's. In a 400 build I've only witnessed one dyno session and it made 385hp, can't remember the exact torque numbers and I didn't build it here so not sure how much was left on the table due to minor things like valve/seat work, tight quench, degreeing the cam exactly, carb/distributor tuning, etc.. The Crower 60916 will made a solid 1hp/CID and up near 450ft lbs torque with small chamber big valve heads and 10 to 1 compression. The 60243 will make a bit more and is a better choice for 400 builds with 10 to 10.75 compression, IMHO.........
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
#16
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As far as degreeing the 2802 a simple check to make sure the intake is opening a few degrees BTDC @ .050" tappet lift would be close enough. Any time I've used a 2801 or 2802 cam in any of these builds I just install them "dot to dot" with a stock type Morse 3/4" wide tming set and do a quick intake open point @ .050" check and move on to something else. I will admit that I've only used a few of those cams in Pontiac builds and prefer them to the stock 068 and 744 cams because they establish a greater overall lift average and work very well in "mild" 400 builds. For the "max-effort" stuff neither one of those cams are on my list for any of these engines.
Anyhow, it appears that you have issues with the cam card but going from memory the intake opens a few degrees BTDC @ .050" tappet lift so 3 degrees BTDC at .050" would be more accurate than at .005".......IMHO.....
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
#17
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My 2801 dot to dot degreed right on with the gear set I used. Nice mild cam like stock in a low CR 400.
__________________
Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#18
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Quote:
I like it that the 60916 has a lower lift than the 2802. With more power. How is the low end compared to the 068? 3.55s with a 200 4R in my car. |
#19
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Quote:
Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#20
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Just figured it would be less wear and strain on the valve train. Maybe not a big deal?
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