[bobzdar]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Yes. Let me find it burried at home in a box in the closet.

Went to college in Philla, Pa.

Even took day & night classes during that time at an Automotive tech college.
Along with Calculus, Trig, physics, Psychology & ENGLISH. LOL.
Spring Garden Institute.

Naner, naner.

Engineering or Engineering Technology? Just curious as at my school (RIT) we had both for EE, but not for ME and I'd be curious what the difference was.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Robert C.

Correct,

We used the same mold shop and engineer and the same Foundry. It is a AP product.

Thanks for the clarification. The assumption was that if you were using the Same Mold Shop, Engineer and the Same Foundry, you were getting (except for who wrote the check to pay for the things) a "Donovan" level quality aluminum block. I stand corrected.

I guess that the Corporate (Ford and GM) blocks that are machined in Michigan need to have a footnote that says that GM and Ford did not actually machine the blocks, even though they did the engineering, and the blocks were machined by "John the Block Guy" vs GM or Ford or Chrysler. I guess that "John the Block Guy" should send back all of those payment checks for the work that he did on those "no longer" corporate blocks.

Personally I will take one of "John the Block Guy"/ "Mold Shop/ Engineer/ Foundry Guys" & All Pontiac "Check Writers" Blocks without a second thought.

Tom Vaught

ps Everyone in the world knows what I do for a living, John, post up your credentials for us.

[Old Man Taylor]

The foundry that does the AP blocks also does the Donovan blocks, and many other cast aluminum parts. If you just looked at the place from afar, it looks as you would expect for an old foundry. However, when you go over their process it is very impressive. I had the good fortune of personally being able to check out everything from the receipt of aluminum ingots to a finished block. I felt that it was a very impressive operation, and I used to audit businesses as a part of my "old" career.

[johnta1]

I guess that the Corporate (Ford and GM) blocks that are machined in Michigan need to have a footnote that says that GM and Ford did not actually machine the blocks, even though they did the engineering, and the blocks were machined by "John the Block Guy" vs GM or Ford or Chrysler. I guess that "John the Block Guy" should send back all of those payment checks for the work that he did on those "no longer" corporate blocks.

That's the corporate way now.

Back when Pontiac was Pontiac, it was all done in-house, no subbing it out to some outsider. (like most are chinese cr@p now)

[Tom Vaught]

Sorry John, You are wrong again.

The 455 SD rods were made by Teledyne Continental in Muskegon, Michigan.
Pistons were made by TRW (Thompson Ramo-Wooldridge) in Cleveland, Ohio
T-10 and Super T-10 transmissions were made by Borg Warner
Camshafts were made by Camshaft Machine Company in Jackson, Michigan
Oil Pumps were made by Melling in Jackson, Michigan
Sealing rings, valve tappets and transmission filters were made by Sealed Power in Kentucky and Michigan
Belts, Hoses, rubber parts, etc were made by DAYCO (Dayton Rubber Company)

NONE OF THESE COMPANIES WERE OWNED BY GENERAL MOTORS. NO JOHN, IT WAS NOT "ALL DONE IN-HOUSE" BY A LONG SHOT.

Where do you come up with your statements? I actually THOUGHT that you knew something about GM.

Tom Vaught

ps There are lots more companies but why bother to further prove my point to you.

[Mirk]

Anyone who says the IA II (either aluminum or iron) is not a good block is an idiot. Its perhaps the most impressive after market block on the market. I couldn't be more proud to say its "All Pontiac". I wish I had the money to buy an IA II. I would trade my stock 455 for an IA II in a heart beat. I Wouldn't have to think about it.

This video says it all. Butler Performance walks us through all the improvements the IA II has over a traditional Pontiac block.

http://youtu.be/Y8lk06O1CeI

[johnta1]

Where do you come up with your statements? I actually THOUGHT that you knew something about GM.

The 455 SD rods were made by Teledyne Continental in Muskegon, Michigan.
Pistons were made by TRW (Thompson Ramo-Wooldridge) in Cleveland, Ohio
T-10 and Super T-10 transmissions were made by Borg Warner
Camshafts were made by Camshaft Machine Company in Jackson, Michigan
Oil Pumps were made by Melling in Jackson, Michigan
Sealing rings, valve tappets and transmission filters were made by Sealed Power in Kentucky and Michigan
Belts, Hoses, rubber parts, etc were made by DAYCO (Dayton Rubber Company)

For the reading impaired, there is NO mention of a block in there.
This topic started by YOU is about blocks.

[STALLION]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Slowbird, who knows what else hasn't been done?

With no commentary that this is a block not ready for prime time?

Maybe AP could sponsor me and give me a free block?

John, maybe Frank and Bob could find a guy to spend $120,000.00 on a race car, and then be the guinea pig for their not ready for prime time," block ".

Then, when this guy helps to prove that the "aluminum block" is ready for prime time, they can kick him to the curb and go out and buy a fairly new (similar) Pro Stock Car them-selfs and pound their chest, and say, " We did it ".

S#it, might have been done already.

John, great idea about the free block thing. I never thought of asking AP for a free one.

Wow, if I get a free one, that will be a first for me!!!!!!!!

Stallion

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Thanks for the clarification. The assumption was that if you were using the Same Mold Shop, Engineer and the Same Foundry, you were getting (except for who wrote the check to pay for the things) a "Donovan" level quality aluminum block. I stand corrected.

I guess that the Corporate (Ford and GM) blocks that are machined in Michigan need to have a footnote that says that GM and Ford did not actually machine the blocks, even though they did the engineering, and the blocks were machined by "John the Block Guy" vs GM or Ford or Chrysler. I guess that "John the Block Guy" should send back all of those payment checks for the work that he did on those "no longer" corporate blocks.

Personally I will take one of "John the Block Guy"/ "Mold Shop/ Engineer/ Foundry Guys" & All Pontiac "Check Writers" Blocks without a second thought.

Tom Vaught

ps Everyone in the world knows what I do for a living, John, post up your credentials for us.

I don't understand what your point is, Tom.

What if AP had used the same foundry/machine shop that GM or Ford may have used on some of their blocks? Would it be ok to reference GM or Ford when speaking of said AP block, when GM or Ford had nothing to do with it?

There's no question in my mind that this new block is of high quality, either on the same level as Donovan's products or higher.

[Milepost]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I don't understand what your point is, Tom.

What if AP had used the same foundry/machine shop that GM or Ford may have used on some of their blocks? Would it be ok to reference GM or Ford when speaking of said AP block, when GM or Ford had nothing to do with it?

There's no question in my mind that this new block is of high quality, either on the same level as Donovan's products or higher.

Brian: I'd cut Tom V. some slack here as many other members have also referred the new block as the ''Donovan'' aluminum Pontiac block long before he did. I remember a certain moderator/owner of another Pontiac forum referring it as such many months ago. I will also agree that it will be of the highest quality. Many thanks to Bob, Frank and the Butlers for investing their time and money to bring us new "Pro grade" racing products. Tom deserves a big "THANK YOU" too for going out of his way to gather new info and pictures on the improved block. Just another example of Tom stepping up and going above and beyond for the Pontiac enthusiast. Just my

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Milepost

Brian: I'd cut Tom V. some slack here as many other members have also referred the new block as the ''Donovan'' aluminum Pontiac block long before he did. I remember a certain moderator/owner of another Pontiac forum referring it as such many months ago. I will also agree that it will be of the highest quality. Many thanks to Bob, Frank and the Butlers for investing their time and money to bring us new "Pro grade" racing products. Tom deserves a big "THANK YOU" too for going out of his way to gather new info and pictures on the improved block. Just another example of Tom stepping up and going above and beyond for the Pontiac enthusiast. Just my

I don't think I'm being harsh on Tom. He did after all start this thread. I don't know of any other moderator/owner of another Pontiac site that referred to it as a "Donovan" block, but I suspect you're speaking of a certain denizen of Rhode Island, and if so, I don't ever look at his site, and anything he has to say about anything is of zero value.

I wanted clarification on whether or not Donovan was involved, that's all.

For me, giving praise to Bob, Frank, and the Butlers goes without saying...they know where I stand on their IA-2 product(s)...I've been a supporter from day one, not to mention a customer.

As for Tom...thank you for taking your personal time to provide us with these pictures. Some have not been appreciative of them judging by their comments, but I appreciate it.

[Tom Vaught]

Brian, when I sat down with the "Block Engineer" (I was told that he was the "Block Engineer for Donovan" 5 years ago at the PRI show in Florida), we had a very nice LONG discussion about what it would take to design a proper aluminum racing block for the Pontiac world.

The man's name was "Haviar" or something like that. Bob could post his actual name.

The man was extremely smart, as related to racing aluminum blocks, etc as I expected.

That being said, I ASSUMED, that he was doing the work for Bob and Frank thru Donovan. If I was wrong, I apologize for posting incorrectly.

Tom Vaught

[$50bird]

Any further info on when this will be ready. Cant get any info from Butler we've had an order in for over a year we have the rotating assy but no block....any info would be nice

[Robert C.]

We have a shipment going out today if all goes as planed to Butler Performance.

We will have them at the POCI event on display too.

[cgeise]

Better be carfull here - pretty soon " DONOVAN" is going to want a cut for using there name -------------

[Robert C.]

Curt,

We are pouring them at the same foundry and the same mold maker made our molds. Tom misspoke and used their name. They know we are doing this type of block and have had the same foundry engineer heading it up for us. It has been a long steady process making these blocks. I will have pictures of them at the drags race vendors booth at POCI 07-07-11 to 07-09-11

[Region Warrior]

Trade ins on untouched IAII iron blocks?
Can bring mine and pick up an A-blk next wkend

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by Robert C.

Curt,

We are pouring them at the same foundry and the same mold maker made our molds. Tom misspoke and used their name. They know we are doing this type of block and have had the same foundry engineer heading it up for us. It has been a long steady process making these blocks. I will have pictures of them at the drags race vendors booth at POCI 07-07-11 to 07-09-11

I know - I was jerking your chain --- you have been crying about " HAVIER" forever - Im thinking 120 off the nose of that GTO WOULD WORK GREAT -- If the block will hold it ???

[Robert C.]

Ok we will make you a deal. Sponsorship Right? Call my cell sometime.

[Tom Vaught]

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