[Engine-Ear]

Hey guys,

We're going to be buying a '70s Jeep Wagoneer this year to replace Mrs. Engine-Ear's '97 Cherokee...I am through with OBD, CPS, F/I and all the other extra crap that is both difficult to diagnose and an expensive PITA to fix. OK, sorry for the rant.

Anyway, is anyone here into Jeeps, specifically Wagoneers? Is there a street-use (non-4x4) PY-forums equivalent out there? Any club recommendations? Authoritative Wagoneer books covering history and/or restoration?

Thanks in advance...

[pontiac6269]

Here are couple forums I'm a member on. I don't own one but love the styling of the old Wagoneers and J series trucks and would like to get one someday. http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/index.php? http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/index.php One forum is for all Jeeps and the other is for the full size Jeeps like Wagoneers and J series trucks.

[Sirrotica]

Matt, I can guide you through putting a Pontiac in it, put 2 in Wagoneers (65,67), and one in a J4000 3/4 ton (73)......

[stevep]

Be prepared to spend a LOT of money on fuel!!.

I like the look of them, but I would NEVER own one!

When you own one, there is always something that needs to be done to it. They are also rust prone.

[mike nixon]

I've owned a couple of them and still have one for parts. Not fuel efficient and they rust well.

MIke

[Engine-Ear]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Brad, I have already considered Poncho power...Hmmm!

Re rust and mileage, I have definitely gotten that sense. I am thinking some serious rust-proofing and as for mileage, well, a wise man once said it's about SMILES per gallon!

The forum ideas are great - thanks!!

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Brad, I have already considered Poncho power...Hmmm!

A lot better suited for them than the 327 or 360 AMC engines. and not all that hard since Jeep used T 400 transmissions in quite a few of them. 67-69 had a Buick 350 available so some of the adaptation has already been worked out.

I have used a 350,389,and a 455 for powerplants in them. Even the 350 had much more power than the 360 AMC did.

[boater bill]

I had 2 86 Grand Wagoneers. Loved the driving, towing, off road capability although not near as good as my built Wrangler. The turning radius is so tight, it is almost scary.
My 2nd one had locking hubs to help with the gas mileage, about 14 on the highway.
None of mine were rusted since I live in the south where we don't have to salt the roads.
I would stay away from ones with Quadratrac, huge gas hog and not that good of 4 wheel drive.

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

A lot better suited for them than the 327 or 360 AMC engines. and not all that hard since Jeep used T 400 transmissions in quite a few of them. 67-69 had a Buick 350 available so some of the adaptation has already been worked out.

I have used a 350,389,and a 455 for powerplants in them. Even the 350 had much more power than the 360 AMC did.

The Low Comp 360 I'll agree with, the HO engine like I had in my Super Cheif is a stout well running unit. Couldn't stick the Quadratrac either. I tried. Wish I could've found a body for that one as I liked that Truck. No good 2 dr ones in captivity tho.

[Sirrotica]

Mike, on the 360s the oil pumps in the timing cover are pretty much junk, even buick switched later on to an internal pump, the aluminum rocker pedestals are junk same as olds, timing chains and gears have the wonderful nylon upper gear. The Pontiac is miles ahead in reliability and power. My 360 was the garden variety and had headers on it, the 350 2 bbl I replaced it with had cast iron manifolds and duals and would out run the 360 any day of the week and get better fuel mileage doing it too. One of the guys in a parts store I bought from had the Golden eagle? with a 401 in it that did run well, I'm pretty sure although we never run each other than my Pontiac power would have dusted it.

I agree no quadratrac, my 73 J4000 had it and the chain went out through the side of the case, and it was a hog on gas too. Fortunately the high low transfer case from earlier Wagoneers is a bolt in so it's not that difficult to change over and put hubs on the front axle.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

A lot better suited for them than the 327 or 360 AMC engines. and not all that hard since Jeep used T 400 transmissions in quite a few of them. 67-69 had a Buick 350 available so some of the adaptation has already been worked out.

I have used a 350,389,and a 455 for powerplants in them. Even the 350 had much more power than the 360 AMC did.

That THM 400 in a Jeep is pretty much a Jeep only bellhousing.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

A lot better suited for them than the 327 or 360 AMC engines. and not all that hard since Jeep used T 400 transmissions in quite a few of them. 67-69 had a Buick 350 available so some of the adaptation has already been worked out.

I have used a 350,389,and a 455 for powerplants in them. Even the 350 had much more power than the 360 AMC did.

That THM 400 in a Jeep is pretty much a Jeep only bellhousing. But you could change the case to a BOP case.

[INJUNTOM]

I've got a '75 with 360 AMC, TH400, Quadratrac. Timing set already changed, Quadratrac gone through. Truck had 104k when I got it and I've put on about 30,000 trouble free mileson it. Bought it from the orignal owner about 12 years ago. Still have the original bill of sale form Mistlin Buick/Jeep.

It was featured in the june '04 issue of Collectible Automobile magazine for a stoy on the history of the Wagoneer.

Not sure what I'll do with it considering it doesn't get driven much.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by stevep

That THM 400 in a Jeep is pretty much a Jeep only bellhousing. But you could change the case to a BOP case.

There is a cast iron adapter ring for the 350 Buick (67-69 wagoneer) that adapts perfectly to the Pontiac engine. The Buick flexplate is smaller diameter so a little grinding for clearance on the inner side is needed for flexplate clearance, once that's done it's just like it was made for it.

Of course using a BOP case is possible too, just not needed if you can find the Buick adapter.

If you want to run the Jeep 3 speed with a Pontiac, the bellhousings from the CJ5 with the 225 Buick V6 are a bolt in also. One of the Wagoneers I did was a stick.

[6 Grrrs]

I had a '77 with a 401 and Qtrac w/optional low range unit. You can't beat them in the snow, but you really can't pass a fuel station either. My father had a '79 & a '80 Wagoneer, and a '79 Cherokee Chief 2 door with the big flares, all with the same 360 from the first Wagoneer he had (i think the '79), and all Qtrac w/o the low range unit.

They are fun vehicles to drive, go great off road, and most parts are easily obtainable. The rear glass (tailgate) almost never works, if the front springs are sagging, then the front driveshaft tends to hit the starter motor when heavy braking. Then it won't start next time due to the bent starter case. If it's a Qtrac and the front CV joint is slightly worn, it'll usually put a hole in the side of the TH400 at highway speeds (there used to be a repair kit just for this issue). If a front axle's splines get weak, the Qtrac will put all available power to that wheel and the Jeep won't move, until you engage the vacuum switch in the glove box. When the door jambs/side panels start to separate from the floor pan due to rust, it's time to say adios. The chain in the Qtrac transfer case will stretch when abused, and then slip badly. Did I mantion rust? All of the above issues (with the exception of the trans damage/CV joint) happened to my Jeep in the few years I owned it. Let's just say it didn't appear to be very well maintained before I owned it, and I only paid $600 for it to get thru a few winters. My father's Jeeps had similar issues.

My 401 got about 6 mpg around town. It rotted away to almost nothing so I sold it to a kid who was fixing up a Javelin. He pulled the 401 and junked the rest.

I'd love to find another one, but have other things I need more. Nothing beats them in the snow, period.

[Sirrotica]

My 67 with the 65 Bonneville 389 and a 9779068 HO cam, reworked Q-Jet from one of my race cars on it. I scattered the front differential in it and replaced both axles from a 65, 6 cylinder stick W/ 4.10 gears. In snow the wagoneer was scarey fast. From a standstill it would throw roostertails about 10 feet in the air from all 4 wheels and you better keep up with the steering corrections or you'd be in trouble quick.

I had to make a traction bar because the rear springs wouldn't wrap up when it shifted to second (shift kit) the driveshaft would hit the inside of the tunnel. Was a fun ride, not pretty and of course rusty. I surprised the heck out of a 340 duster with it, LOL I bet that guy wondered how a rusty POS wagoneer could beat his duster...........

Ahhh the stuff we did when we were younger...LOL

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

There is a cast iron adapter ring for the 350 Buick (67-69 wagoneer) that adapts perfectly to the Pontiac engine. The Buick flexplate is smaller diameter so a little grinding for clearance on the inner side is needed for flexplate clearance, once that's done it's just like it was made for it.

Of course using a BOP case is possible too, just not needed if you can find the Buick adapter.

If you want to run the Jeep 3 speed with a Pontiac, the bellhousings from the CJ5 with the 225 Buick V6 are a bolt in also. One of the Wagoneers I did was a stick.

I wasn't sure about the earlier 400. That is basically a Nail Head trans.

I'm talking about the later style without the cast iron adapter. Those are the ones that I really remember. They all used to lose the front driveshaft and it would destroy the case.

[Engine-Ear]

Hey, good feedback, guys...it helps a lot!

[cuz68]

A friend of mine has a 95 that has been seting for 2yrs, It has 202000 miles on it he sad it needed a water pump and a new battery, he said it had a 318 in it? he dont know much about it it was his mother inlaws, His wife is asking $18oo for it i see no body damage on it had new tires put on it bf the water pump went out, I have never owned one It has the gold trim on it like a limeted ed? Anyone know what it is? Thank you Randy.

[INJUNTOM]

Originally Posted by cuz68

A friend of mine has a 95 that has been seting for 2yrs, It has 202000 miles on it he sad it needed a water pump and a new battery, he said it had a 318 in it? he dont know much about it it was his mother inlaws, His wife is asking $18oo for it i see no body damage on it had new tires put on it bf the water pump went out, I have never owned one It has the gold trim on it like a limeted ed? Anyone know what it is? Thank you Randy.

Sure it's not a '91?