[moparcolt]

I just swapped in a 200-4R built by Vince Janis in Akron Oh. into my Pro street 1967 Firebird. I think this may be one of the best things I have dne to the car, maybe only second to the fast ratio steering box!
This was a super easy swap. It had a TH350 in it and was working fine and I wanted to keep it for back-up in case this trans didn't work out, I wanted something the same length so I wouldn't have to get a new drive shaft. I located a TH400 crossmember and that was basically all that was needed to make the swap happen.
I got a 3000 stall converter w/lock-up from summit and the deep aluminum pan to help keep it cool, I had to buy the bracket and geometry corrector for the TV cable nd I picked up the B&M lock-up controler and in Just a few afternoons and evenings I was able to swap it in. The hardest part was getting the dipstick tube in!

The trans shifts great and once she gets into OD and the converter locks up It is cruising at about 2200 RPM at 70 MPH!!!! The car is much quieter at 2200 than atthe old cruise RPM of 3500+, this will be much more bearable on long trips!and I am sure it will get much better MP as well, that will be nice with the climbing gas costs!

I highly recomend this swap and Janis racing transmissions!!Top quality service and products!

[torqjunki]

Sweet!! Sounds like a great ride. What kind of power is it set up to handle and what did it cost?

[abefromen]

Hammer it a dozen times and report back..........

[Cliff R]

Sounds like a nice addition to the Pro Street FB.

My first personal experience with an OD in an early vehicle was installing one in my 67 Impala SS. I replaced a Powergluide that didn't have it on either end. Piss poor starting line performance and rpm's too high on the Interstate at 70 mph with he 3.31 gears.

I used a 1989 4L60 transmission. The 3.06 first gear combined with the .70" overdrive 4th gear was the single best addition to that vehicle. It left like it had 4.11's in it from stoplights, and drove like 2.56's on the highway.

Fuel mileage jumped from 14-16mpg's to 18-22, with an occassional tank getting up near 25mpg's! Even better the car was just a blast to drive everywhere, it was pretty much just a big "turd" with the PG transmission........Cliff

[torqjunki]

Hey Cliff....Will the best 200r from jakeshoe hold up in my full weight 71 FB with a 464ci making 450-500 HP and 500+tq? 90% street with some sticky tire drag strip runs to test parts. Been thinking of calling you to discuss the 2.75 geared T400 also. I would love to take a ride in a similar Pontiac to see just how good they work. I know the 4l80 is better, but I don't want a manual shift or the hassle of dealing with a computer controller or paying for it! Would also like to see some 60ft data on full weight street cars with the 2.56 gear and 2.75 gear set T400.

[Steve C.]

Come on up from Spring to Liberty Hill and drive my Trans Am, we can go to lunch out into the hill country. My Th200-4R works fine and so far has held up with my 505cid /660hp combo. Bob Davis has one in his '64 Tempest and drives it quite often as well as races it on occasions. I use 3.73 gears and Bob has 3.50's, both of us use Contential non-lock up converters we got thru Cliff. At a steady state cruise it has a 200 rpm slip.

[Cliff R]

Hey Cliff....Will the best 200r from jakeshoe hold up in my full weight 71 FB with a 464ci making 450-500 HP and 500+tq?

That's a "loaded" question for sure.

The aftermarket has stepped up considerably with good internals for those transmissions. If you spend enough money on one, it should be fine.....Cliff

[roadrage david]

Ofcours it wil hold up! jakeshoe claims his stage one is as strong as Bowty overdrives stage 3 who can take 630 hp/torque. witch is the one i have..

[66Ponty]

I put a 200 in my Le Mans about a year ago. Just be careful who you purchase it from.

I bought mine from BowTie Overdrives out of California. Decent company but mixed reviews on customer service/quality of parts. Depends on who you talk to. If I could do it over again I might have gone with a different outfit.

[moparcolt]

minre is rated at 500 Hp and Janis can build them to go in 9 sec race cars, He is a great guy to deal with and specializes in the 200-4R look on the turbo buick board and you will find he is a well respected builder. and his pricing is reasonable as well. I got mine second hand from a guy on the turbo board, but it came from Janis and I stopped in and talked to him and he was very helpful.

Chris

[myckee]

One of the best things I ever did to may car was to put in a 2004r as well. It is just amazing to cruise like I have highway gears in the back, but launch like I have race gears. It really is awesome.

Originally Posted by torqjunki

Hey Cliff....Will the best 200r from jakeshoe hold up in my full weight 71 FB with a 464ci making 450-500 HP and 500+tq? 90% street with some sticky tire drag strip runs to test parts. Been thinking of calling you to discuss the 2.75 geared T400 also. I would love to take a ride in a similar Pontiac to see just how good they work. I know the 4l80 is better, but I don't want a manual shift or the hassle of dealing with a computer controller or paying for it! Would also like to see some 60ft data on full weight street cars with the 2.56 gear and 2.75 gear set T400.

Jakeshoe is one of the few builders out there that actually knows how to build one of these transmissions. I would have 0 worries using him.

[torqjunki]

If I go this route, I will buy the best one from a respected expert. I am impressed with Jake's knowledge and willingness to help others on this forum. I think he is Texas as well. My combo will be on the mild side, so I think this will be the best way to go. Steve...I would be happy to take you up on that. I'll call in advance. Is there anybody in Houston area with the T-400/275 gear set up?

[jakeshoe]

Originally Posted by roadrage david

Ofcours it wil hold up! jakeshoe claims his stage one is as strong as Bowty overdrives stage 3 who can take 630 hp/torque. witch is the one i have..

My Stage 1 200-4R is the equivalent of the BTO Stage 3 as far as parts go.
My opinion is that they are WAY over-rating that build.
I'm comfortable with my Stage I at 400 HP/TQ in a 3700-3900 lb combo. I have some out there with more than that, but there is no guarantee as to "when"/if the forward drum shaft will snap.

My Stage I is simply a quality rebuild with a OEM or billet servo, improved band material (carbon), and hydraulic mods that should be performed on any performance build (boost valves, PR spring, accumulator mods, and valve body mods). If I had to do a grandma's car with a 200-4R it would get the same build with slightly less aggressive shift calibrations and a stock servo.

My Stage II is pretty much the same except with a billet forward drum, dual fed direct (3rd) clutches, billet servo, and deep pan. The billet drum allows me to dual feed. The combo of the two allows it to handle 550+ HP/TQ. The deep pan is simply to insure good fluid pickup in a faster car. This is the "most bang for the buck" build.
It will handle quite a bit of power but the cost isn't astronomical.

Once I start adding a billet input shaft, billet OD ring gear and carrier and some additional machining to the trans, it gets costly and IMO it's not as cost effective as a 4L80E in most cases.

The 200-4R "CAN" be built to reliably handle in the 750 HP/TQ range, and only about a dozen guys in the country have the capability of building it at that level . Advertising more than that is misleading IMO.

I feel that it is cost effective to the 500-550 HP/TQ range. Above that I prefer a 4L80E.

[jakeshoe]

Originally Posted by moparcolt

minre is rated at 500 Hp and Janis can build them to go in 9 sec race cars, He is a great guy to deal with and specializes in the 200-4R look on the turbo buick board and you will find he is a well respected builder. and his pricing is reasonable as well. I got mine second hand from a guy on the turbo board, but it came from Janis and I stopped in and talked to him and he was very helpful.

Chris

Vince Janis is one of the dozen or so guys I mentioned.
He knows how to make a 200-4R work.

[jakeshoe]

I do 2.75 gearset TH400's. I think it makes a nice gearset in a heavier car with a broad torquey power-range.

You can run a bit less rear ratio, yet still get it launched and run out the end.
It makes the ratios very similar to the 200-4R, which I think is one of the best street ratio spreads.

Stock eliminator cars run them pretty often (usually in a 200C or TH350) because they have a relatively low HP for the weight and the gearing helps them run the times they do.

Back to back on a TH400 from a 2.48 to a 2.75 on most cars you don't see a significant improvement. The car must be setup to hook or the 2.75 ratio will be a waste, and most street/strip cars aren't consistent at hooking up. So it's a good gearset but in some cases you have to make changes to take full advantage of it.

4L80E...
My favorite trans these days.
I developed a quick releasing transbrake for it that uses a stock pan.
We're building quite a few of them. Look at my website before you make a decision on trans.
I will say that I am becoming spoiled to electronically programming the shift points, shift feel, etc when using a controller.

[roadrage david]

Originally Posted by jakeshoe

My Stage 1 200-4R is the equivalent of the BTO Stage 3 as far as parts go.
My opinion is that they are WAY over-rating that build.
I'm comfortable with my Stage I at 400 HP/TQ in a 3700-3900 lb combo. I have some out there with more than that, but there is no guarantee as to "when"/if the forward drum shaft will snap.

My Stage I is simply a quality rebuild with a OEM or billet servo, improved band material (carbon), and hydraulic mods that should be performed on any performance build (boost valves, PR spring, accumulator mods, and valve body mods). If I had to do a grandma's car with a 200-4R it would get the same build with slightly less aggressive shift calibrations and a stock servo.

My Stage II is pretty much the same except with a billet forward drum, dual fed direct (3rd) clutches, billet servo, and deep pan. The billet drum allows me to dual feed. The combo of the two allows it to handle 550+ HP/TQ. The deep pan is simply to insure good fluid pickup in a faster car. This is the "most bang for the buck" build.
It will handle quite a bit of power but the cost isn't astronomical.

Once I start adding a billet input shaft, billet OD ring gear and carrier and some additional machining to the trans, it gets costly and IMO it's not as cost effective as a 4L80E in most cases.

The 200-4R "CAN" be built to reliably handle in the 750 HP/TQ range, and only about a dozen guys in the country have the capability of building it at that level . Advertising more than that is misleading IMO.

I feel that it is cost effective to the 500-550 HP/TQ range. Above that I prefer a 4L80E.

Jake without starting a pissing contest my own engine dilivers 530 hp 577 lbs of torque.
have there(BTO) stage 3 and been trashing the crap out of it. works flawles(lost kickdouwn for some time, was as you said a cable ajustmend error).
Have imported about 9 of them(tr7004r and tr2004r) and those are behind some serius 500 and up hp stout injun and chevy engines... so far they al last!!.
Right now im thinking of getting a 750/1000 hp Mack daddy tr2004r from Lonnie Exstreem automatics. for my new engine combo.

Only problem i have purchasing it, is that he,s not ""giving me"" what i whant to hear when asking how he would aprotch sutch a build for my unortedox way of useing it as a road race transmission!!! and manual shift it up and douwn when doing the cours.
Only thing i get back with the Emails is ""we got you coverd"".....

[Cliff R]

RRD, an overdrive automatic transmission isn't the best deal for road racing. The gear spread is just too wide and you spend too much time "pushing" the converter to keep the engine in it's power range and the vehicle at speed. Not trying to say it woln't work, but a LOT of heat is created when the engine is loaded up against the converter unless it is a very efficient peice. Trying to use lock-up to eliminate the torque multiplication will overwork the TCC and/or lug the engine or not always keep it in it's most effective power range.

I'm sure they make manual transmissions with much better gear ratios for that purpose. Might be something to look at in lieu of using a 200-4R at that power level right to start with. They have a "spotty" record at high HP levels right to start with. Some last a while, but they give up sooner or later. Being clear across the pond, you may not have the resources to service them, and any warrantee would be pretty much useless considering the expense of shipping one back and forth.......Cliff

[garrity455]

This sounds awesome. I have thought about the gear vendors thing before to make the interstate a little nicer. I am normally cruising at 75 MPH for 5 hours to Norwalk, a 28" tall tire, and 3.23 gear keep the RPM ok, around 3000 or so, but having overdrive would be awesome. And if it even added a little gear off of the line, that would be a double bonus! I didn't realize this option was even really out there. I need to find out more about this.

[roadrage david]

Cliff im aware of what you say, However haveing 13 inch dubble ventilated sloughted rotors al round with 4 piston brake calipers powerd bij hydra boost sytem. make sure i only mildly engine brake on the transmission.
Massif cooling in the likes of 3 oil coolers for my transmission and a deep aluminium oil pan, hase the trans never come above 150 * engine oil gets upto 280 water at 210 max .
the combo works. a bullid proof clutchless TKO 6 speed from keisler performance sets me back 8000 usd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. as for warrenty BTO hase been good to us replaceing a faulty convertor imidiatly . dropshipt withit 5 days...ps the engine car combo thussend seem to be mutch troubled catshing up and passing the modern greats like the c6zo6 corvettes, and Saleen and shelby soupt up mustangs on the track.
I know its against al rezen of what you should do for road raceing , but if the stuf holds up it holds up!!!!!

[jakeshoe]

Originally Posted by roadrage david

Jake without starting a pissing contest my own engine dilivers 530 hp 577 lbs of torque.
have there(BTO) stage 3 and been trashing the crap out of it. works flawles(lost kickdouwn for some time, was as you said a cable ajustmend error).
Have imported about 9 of them(tr7004r and tr2004r) and those are behind some serius 500 and up hp stout injun and chevy engines... so far they al last!!.
Right now im thinking of getting a 750/1000 hp Mack daddy tr2004r from Lonnie Exstreem automatics. for my new engine combo.

Only problem i have purchasing it, is that he,s not ""giving me"" what i whant to hear when asking how he would aprotch sutch a build for my unortedox way of useing it as a road race transmission!!! and manual shift it up and douwn when doing the cours.
Only thing i get back with the Emails is ""we got you coverd"".....

I wouldn't trust a 200-4R behind that power with a stock forward drum. IF you look at the design of the drum where the input shaft pilots into the forward drum shaft and how little material is there, you see why they fail at that point.
And they do fail there, I've rebuilt several with a failed fwd drum.
One was being driven into the driveway when it popped.

Some of them seem to live for awhile. I have some Stage I 200-4R's living well beyond what I feel comfortable putting them behind. The guy in India who made the forward drum must have been on his A game that day...

The Stage II I trust MUCH more. I have them in low 10 second cars. GNs, Chevelles, etc without issue. The most important thing is the hydraulics and this is where many builders fail.

Lonnie is very busy and not to be too harsh but,
when you are busy you are more inclined to "select" your customers.
A overseas customer who is using the trans for an unorthodox application may not be one he wants to chase.
I know his quality and I refer customers to him all the time. Extreme Automatics builds transmissions for some of the fastest cars in the country that are still using an auto...