[grnwng]

Thought a place had a bubble balencer for 8 lugers here in South Dakota. No luck when I got there.

Saw were Engine ear did a thing a while back for them. Would like to attend the next one. Mama wants me to go to Chicago to see the kid, in school there. Not unless I gots real good reason will I go to Chicago anymore. This would be.

But, the Bonnie would shake apart before I get there.

Any one know about the equall stuff? I know you do not use them in semi tires, or motorcycle tires. (If you do your own tire work). Many shops will not work on tires that have had the stuff put in em also.

Gettin desparte as it shakes alot at 75 mph.

[Stu Norman]

There are more than one brand of "balancing powder" or "balancing beads" used in the heavy truck industry. The powder actually does a good job of dynamically balancing the rolling mass as it spins. This is why a semi never worries about throwing a balancing weight.

Maybe someone else can offer a reason why this method isn't used in passenger car tires.

[Deadhead]

They used to use soapstone dust for this b/c it is a very dense stone & grinds up like talc. I happen to live on a mountain of the stuff. It never occurred to me to try it though. Hmmmmm.

[grnwng]

Had what seemed like very small rubber balls in tires on front. Got them out and ballence seems better.

Still would like a bit better as I do get kinda picky when I can fix somethin easy like.

[Engine-Ear]

Here's an article about a specific idea: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=9083 ...passed the "Ryan Test" on the Jalopy Journal...has my vote.

...Plus I don't blame you for neither wanting to shake the filings out of your head nor drive in Chicago...

[grnwng]

Found some Equal today. Will try that. Then maybe can get to one your balencing things.

Thanks all.

[U47]

Why don't you have the tire/wheel combo balanced with a regular dynamic balance machine?? You could even spin balance them on a old Hunter or a Alimite strobe balancer but it's not as good as the new type of balancers.

Don

[Deadhead]

It is a PITA with 8 lugs. You have to put each wheel on a rear drum and have it done that way if doing it off the car, which does not guarantee it will be right either if there is an issue with the drum. To me the on-the-car is the way to go. I know these things are in barns everywhere.

[U47]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

It is a PITA with 8 lugs. You have to put each wheel on a rear drum and have it done that way if doing it off the car, which does not guarantee it will be right either if there is an issue with the drum. To me the on-the-car is the way to go. I know these things are in barns everywhere.

I would have assumed everyone knows that you would have first balanced a extra hub all by itself first and then put the wheel to it on the dynamic/harmonic balance machine, which is why especially I use that type of machine for cars that are used on the track. FYI the hub method is also the best way to balance wheels on early Ford wide five ( 1940's ) type and VW-Porsche wide five types through mid sixties. These new computer balancers are much better than the old strobe type because they put pressure on the tire as it's being balanced to simulate tire load of the weight of the car. This tell us if the tire needs to be shaved anywhere to make the tire round, or if we should rotate the tire say 180 degrees on the wheel. The machine is not only looking at the tire weight and density but also the lightest part of the wheel to put the heaviest part of the tire before any weights are applied. Prices have come down so much that most shops have this kind of balancer today but tire truing and or shaving are only at the best shops.
FYI hubs are a more accurate way to to balance, centers of drums can vary because the backing can distort on mount up with a wheel attached, better to use the races in the hub to line up your cones on the machine.
Don

[Deadhead]

You are a lucky man if you have a shop that will do all that near you. There is nobody within 100 miles of me that will go through the hassle of truing the hub and then putting all 5 wheels on it to balance. It will be be better for my 100 MPH & below car to have a continuous source of balancing.

[U47]

You get Your own hubs for yourself, I have them for early Ford and VW Porsche and for Pontaic and once they are balanced by you or someone else they are used when needed. Everyone who has a eight lug car should have one made up so the new equipment can be used. It's cheap and they can be found in a junk yard for pennies. Do not drive the races out of the hubs because you use them to true the cones for the balancer. A good balancer will have the small cones and a small arbor for the cones.

Don

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by U47

These new computer balancers are much better than the old strobe type because they put pressure on the tire as it's being balanced to simulate tire load of the weight of the car. This tell us if the tire needs to be shaved anywhere to make the tire round, or if we should rotate the tire say 180 degrees on the wheel. The machine is not only looking at the tire weight and density but also the lightest part of the wheel to put the heaviest part of the tire before any weights are applied.

Not trying to but your chops, U47, but I haven't seen these in regular use around the Milwaukee area...and MKE ain't exactly a small town... I imagine that the non-city DarkSider isn't exactly having better luck that me in finding a shop with this hardware...plus I kinda like the idea of DIY...even if prices have come down, I'll bet even a used example of what you describe is a grand+

For those of you POCI members, have a look at Ron Panzer's latest 8-lug article in Smoke Signals... his balancer is old school, probably affordable (IF you can find one - possibly a big if, I grant you) and passes the sniff test... gravity (g-downward for you engineering types) still happens at 9.8 m/s^2 and imbalance can't hide.

[U47]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Not trying to but your chops, U47, but I haven't seen these in regular use around the Milwaukee area...and MKE ain't exactly a small town... I imagine that the non-city DarkSider isn't exactly having better luck that me in finding a shop with this hardware...plus I kinda like the idea of DIY...even if prices have come down, I'll bet even a used example of what you describe is a grand+

For those of you POCI members, have a look at Ron Panzer's latest 8-lug article in Smoke Signals... his balancer is old school, probably affordable (IF you can find one - possibly a big if, I grant you) and passes the sniff test... gravity (g-downward for you engineering types) still happens at 9.8 m/s^2 and imbalance can't hide.

Well Engine Ear, Funny you mentioned that, actually the first one we had in engineering we got in the late 70's and most tire shops now have better than that. The latest one before I retired was a Hunter that went for about 10 grand, but you have to remember we were prepping press vehicles and engineering test vehicles and even sometimes motorsporst would use our equipment. The town I live in now (7,000 people) has a tire shop that has a computerized Sun machine and I guess about 20+ years old. I've got a friend in the next town (29,000 people) that has a complete auto repair business who has a newer one than the sun afore mentioned. Heck even the Wall Mart in my buddy's town has a computerized tire balancer. Point is those machines have been out there for decades and there is no excuse for a shop not having one / not in this century.
Don

[Engine-Ear]

What town are you in? I'll arrive out of balance and leave in-balance!

[U47]

Engine-ear, any good tire shop in California, Arizona, Nevada. Even the chain stores like Cost-Co. Wal-Mart ect. that have their own tire centers.

Don

[Deadhead]

OK. I'm gonna head into my local Wal-Mart with my 8-lugs and see what they say.

Maybe if we all do it during the same week we can get an 'Alice's Restaurant' type movement going.

[Engine-Ear]

[U47]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

OK. I'm gonna head into my local Wal-Mart with my 8-lugs and see what they say.

Maybe if we all do it during the same week we can get an 'Alice's Restaurant' type movement going.

Just make sure you bring the hub and drum assy with you because you will need to balance that first, then you can balance the four wheels on the hub & drum assy. My guess is they will charge you for five ( you will need to use the stick on wheel weights for the hub/drum assy ). PAY attention to the guy doing the work. If he chucks the hub assy up and balances it and next goes for a wheel to balance stop him right there. A good tech will balance the hub and loosen it and rotate it 180 and recheck his balance accuracy. This also holds true when balancing conventional wheels. This also is true when turning drums or brake rotors....especially brake rotors. Chuck a rotor up in the brake lathe, move your cutting tool to the rotor and make a small contact, rotate the rotor 180 degrees on the cones and go again, the contact patch MUST be in the same place or you will turn a rotor un-true for some good old brake pedal judder.

Don

[Deadhead]

Screw that U47. I am going to drive the car in there and watch them try to figure out what in the hell to do. They are gonna think that it is some kind of wheel cover with fake lugs in that pattern.

You are in some kind of dream world if you think Wal-Mart is gonna do a balance job on a car with 8 lug wheels.

Stay tuned. I know the guy at Sam's. I have bought thousands of dollars worth of tires from him. We will see what happens when he pulls that wagon into the bay.

Don't get me wrong, I respect your expertise, but if an actual alignment shop wont touch this job, I am going to see what they are gonna do at the big box b/c I am in dire need of a good laugh.

[U47]

Stay calm, talk to the store manager and tell him what your trying to do. If he is a good guy he will try to help you out. Don't wait for the diffuculties, explain how you want this done, not saying anything and letting them figure it out NOT to your satisfaction just causes friction unless your prepaired to go to battle or sit and complain. The hub-drum balance deal works, I've done this job many times before so be positive and go in there with a positive attitude not a negative one. Be nice! your a nice guy right! No worries!

Don