[ClassJ]

Posted By Ccass;

"Classj: Good and fair post except the famous '30 years professional mechanic and 100 systems installed' comment. Unfortunately, the 'experts' almost always have more trouble with our systems than a novice doing an install in his garage. They consistantly have problems with Pypes installs because they are set in their ways and just plain don't know how to install our system because it installs differently than what they are use to. They are also usually far to experienced to read the instructions. 'Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks' is unfortunately very appropriate for the long time 'master mechanic'. Yes, our mufflers could be tucked up higher and fit 'your' GTO perfectly. However, those tailpipes need to fit 10 years of A-body cars. We had to design them to fit a multitude of applications and there is simply no disadvantage of the mufflers sitting 1-2" lower than stock. A GTO has PLENTY of clearance. Most owners need about 4 hours to complete the installation you guys had so much trouble with. "
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I guess even customer support by "good" companies has its limits. If anyone from Performance Years would like to come inspect my exhaust system install, criticize it, tell me what we did wrong, and install the system "properly" I would encourage you to do so. In this case, bashing professional mechanics, who have restored vehicles for a living, and purchased thousands of dollars from your company and others in the automotive restoration community for customers vehicles as well as their own is ridiculous and in fact deplorable.

Could it be that a professional knows how a good quality system, whether aftermarket, stock, etc knows how a system should fit? Is that the issue here? A novice can install a poorly designed system in a half day not knowing the difference, a professional knows what is right, and what is wrong.

The fact that your tailpipes fit dozens of different A body applications is of no use to me when they in fact do not fit MY car properly without re-bending and hammering. I would have gladly paid double for tailpipes that actually are correct for the application.

In case you are wondering, the instructions supplied were read to the T, but no where in them did it state which was the left and right downpipe. Seems like there was some room for improvement there.

Regardless of the above, feedback regarding any product is an important part of engineering, product development and improvement. Bashing the very customers that took the time to purchase and install your parts is in poor taste and Performance Years should reconsider their policies.

I am considering sending a copy of this thread to the GTOAA editorial section.

(and for the record, I contacted Performance Years several times regarding the fit of my system when I installed, and was not treated much differently)

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by ClassJ

Posted By Ccass;

"Classj: Good and fair post except the famous '30 years professional mechanic and 100 systems installed' comment. Unfortunately, the 'experts' almost always have more trouble with our systems than a novice doing an install in his garage. They consistantly have problems with Pypes installs because they are set in their ways and just plain don't know how to install our system because it installs differently than what they are use to. They are also usually far to experienced to read the instructions. 'Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks' is unfortunately very appropriate for the long time 'master mechanic'. Yes, our mufflers could be tucked up higher and fit 'your' GTO perfectly. However, those tailpipes need to fit 10 years of A-body cars. We had to design them to fit a multitude of applications and there is simply no disadvantage of the mufflers sitting 1-2" lower than stock. A GTO has PLENTY of clearance. Most owners need about 4 hours to complete the installation you guys had so much trouble with. "
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I guess even customer support by "good" companies has its limits. If anyone from Performance Years would like to come inspect my exhaust system install, criticize it, tell me what we did wrong, and install the system "properly" I would encourage you to do so. In this case, bashing professional mechanics, who have restored vehicles for a living, and purchased thousands of dollars from your company and others in the automotive restoration community for customers vehicles as well as their own is ridiculous and in fact deplorable.
I appologize for the way I sounded the other night. It was late and I was very tired. I should have waited until the next day. I thank you for your business and appreciate it but as both a representative of Pypes as well as the administrator, this topic is just plain wrong in many ways. You correctly posted a topic here on PY to get some answers about an exhaust system that wasn't fitting. But as so many members do, they leave it hanging without updates. Didn't our senior tech guy personally gathered and made custom pieces to solve your problem? As a side note to all....call Magnaflow's tech department and try and get a technician to help you if you have a problem with one of their systems. There isn't any!!!!
Could it be that a professional knows how a good quality system, whether aftermarket, stock, etc knows how a system should fit? Is that the issue here? A novice can install a poorly designed system in a half day not knowing the difference, a professional knows what is right, and what is wrong.
you don't want to hear this and it may sound pompous but WE are the experts on our products. A professional mechanic is not. He is an expert at what he was trained in. A mechanic is not a PYPES exhaust expert. An Exhaust shop that has installed 5000 systems in their lifetime is NOT a PYPES expert. The novice comment is absolutely true and I wasn't trying to be cute. They normall can install a system easier because they have no pre-conceived ideas on how our exhaust should be installed. They look at the instructions and they plod along and get it done. I'm not kidding around here. We get a vast majority of the 'your exhaust sucks' complaints from the 'master mechanic'.
The fact that your tailpipes fit dozens of different A body applications is of no use to me when they in fact do not fit MY car properly without re-bending and hammering. I would have gladly paid double for tailpipes that actually are correct for the application.
no rebending or hammering should be necessary. If you had to do that a) the tailpipe(s) were defective or b) you didn't install them correctly or c) your expectations of how a performance exhaust should fit are not the same as ours. It's our job to try and figure out which is the case sometimes with only words and occasionally with a couple of pictures.
In case you are wondering, the instructions supplied were read to the T, but no where in them did it state which was the left and right downpipe. Seems like there was some room for improvement there.
instructions can always be improved and they are constantly changing. but come on, you really didn't know which tailpipe was the left and which was the right?
Regardless of the above, feedback regarding any product is an important part of engineering, product development and improvement. Bashing the very customers that took the time to purchase and install your parts is in poor taste and Performance Years should reconsider their policies.
[b]absolutely! That's why we have this forum. We get unfairly trashed ALL THE TIME in our own damn forum but we leave almost all of it here so we can gather information and continue to improve our products. And if I offended you with my comments to you, again I appologize. Remember, I am also the administrator of the forums and some my criticism of this topic was administrative and having nothing to do with Pypes.

I am considering sending a copy of this thread to the GTOAA editorial section.

(and for the record, I contacted Performance Years several times regarding the fit of my system when I installed, and was not treated much differently)

You didn't talk to Mike Z last week and he didn't get you all of the components you asked for out immediately?

Unfortunately, I had to close the other topic because all the other contributions were basically thread jacks. If you still need technical help on the installation, you can continue it here. If you do, please change the topic heading to reflect the main reason for the topic.

[ClassJ]

Thank you for responding. Actually if you look back at the original post, I was trying to help the OP that had a tailpipe fitment issue. I installed my system last summer and had issues that never were fully rectified. I had spoken to one or two individuals last year at pypes. I sent photos if I recall, etc.

The L&R tailpipes were easy to identify. The L&R head pipes were not at all. They were not marked, and fit both ways, yet were clearly different! I was first told they can go either way, whatever fits best. Then finally was told which was which and tried both ways. I honestly do not recall which way they ended up in the car.

All of these forums can certainly be an echo chamber, however I still stand by my original feelings regarding the system. Certainly not horrible, but constructively speaking I think some simple improvements would have made it go into my car much easier.

At this point I am calling this topic a day. I hope the OP got the help he needed. I appreciate the apology, but to be honest, sometimes people are trying to help others, or help improve the product, not out to bash the company.