[dreambird]

I am looking to have a new short block built...Was going to give either SD Performance or Butler Performance my business. Anyone here have any recommendations on motors that they had either build for you???

Thanks

[66bonne]

Don't mean to sound like a shill or a nuthugger but here is a great builder to consider:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiac...chineshop.html

Great guy, supports the hobby locally, extensive racing resume. Knows his Pontiac stuff.

Thanks, jim

[75TA]

dreambird,

There are a few good pontiac engine builders. My recomendation is, if possible, see if one is near you. Where are you located.

[vtxman]

Originally Posted by 75TA

dreambird,

There are a few good pontiac engine builders. My recomendation is, if possible, see if one is near you. Where are you located.

I agree with 75TA. If you are on the West Coast, I would use Ace at Pacific Performance, or SD. If you are on the East Coast, Pdude or Spotts. And if you are in the middle, you have a lot of good choices. No reason to pay a lot of freight charges with so many good choices.

I have had a great experience with Ace and Dave at SD. Not as happy with Butler. I bought a balanced rotating assembly, and the rods and pistons were not balanced. They took the weight of one rod/piston and just balanced the crank. Had to pay for a new balance. I expected better from them.

JMO

[arrowem]

....SD.

[dreambird]

Arrowem, Why SD??? Just looking for specifics.

[dreambird]

I am actually in northern Illinois/Southern Wisconsin area. I don't mind having something shipped as long as there is a guarantee.

[PontiacMatt72]

Kauffman is sorta in that area. No experience, and have heard some less than pleasant stories, but also heard of several good outcomes.

I got lots of stuff from Butler, for my 467 build. am just finishing the build though, haven't started it yet. have to wait and see what happens. I have faith all will go well.

Heard all good from SD. again, no personal experience.

[mudbird]

FWIW I am in MN an I bought a short block from butler back in late 03. It was a 400 block with eagle crank and rods, ross dished pistons for 48 d-port heads and after market 4-bolt caps. (kind of overkill and now I would have gone for the forged crank too!)

It was complete from oil pan to pushrods and I put the heads and timing cover on. I had to get longer pushrods and they were great to work with. I thought it was beautiful and was so smooth turning it over!

It has been a while now and I would still do it again. This thing sounds so sweet and rev's up nicely. They only thing I would change would be the cam but they were big back then (comp xe274)

I do regularly drive 90 miles one way to the drag strip at 3,000 rpm the whole way, some times more, and it runs great on pump gas. It has been a nice motor.

[TinjunTribe]

I'd give both a call and see what kind of service and help you get. I've purchased stuff from both and was satisfied.........

I felt like I got more personalized service from SD though.....they really seem to go out of their way.

[67 Lamnas]

Originally Posted by TinjunTribe

I felt like I got more personalized service from SD though.....they really seem to go out of their way.

Same here.......SD is the best IMO.....

[Steve C.]

"Same here.......SD is the best IMO....."

And a company run by individulas with ethics.

[Tim john]

I had dealings with both, both nice experiences but SD Performance has gone out of their way to follow up with phone calls and offer excellent service, advice and product.

They do NOT nor will NOT sell me something that I do not need. When I call they handle my questions as the most important questions of their day, very professional. I have only one complaint with the way one transaction I had with The Butlers unfolded. I called Jim Butler personally and inquired about dished pistons and their availability, I only needed + .010 over for this engine build but was willing to go for + .030 if they were in stock. This was going to be my first dished piston engine build. Jim told me that there was a four to six week wait for the + .030's and nothing on the +.010 as for availability at that time, this was years ago now so keep that in mind. However Jim happened to have a set of dished + .040's that he would sell me to "help" me out so I pulled the trigger and bought them, built the motor and all is well. A month later I was talking to Dave at SD and just for giggles I asked him on dished Ross pistons availability, he says in an instant "When do you want or need them" I can have them to you in less than a week. I truly belive that Butlers sold me those pistons just to rid them from their stock. They were new but without doubt were intended for another build on their end, the box was all dirty and marked up with someone elses name on it, then scribbled out. Now the pistons were new, no doubt and in excellent condition but I am sure I was sold something that I did not need, it was just convienient for them to unload them onto me. I was young and very trusting and to this day I feel that I was used. Not much of a bad experience and have dealt with them several times since but now I know exactly what I am looking for and do not settle for less and I will not forget my earlier experience, it is on my mind every time I talk with them. But in their defense, everything since has been positive with advice as long as it takes for me to understand, they do not cut my calls short and are personable but SD Performance has rubbed me right from the very first time so with that in mind my first call will always go to them. Dave & Marcel treat me very good and I am only a very small potatoe in their customer base soup. I am a nobody (as far as a quantity buyer) UNTIL I call their shop and right then I am their customer & treated as if I was their best one.

Tim john---

[triathlonx13]

Originally Posted by dreambird

I am looking to have a new short block built...Was going to give either SD Performance or Butler Performance my business. Anyone here have any recommendations on motors that they had either build for you???

Thanks

Both are good - Look for a shop that specializes (or at least builds the most of) your type of engine.

pdude - has a lot of experience in nitrous motors / etc. and so on.....

.

[Doug1]

I just bought from SD again this past week. I have used both but SD definitely handles their customers better. The guy I called at Butler didn't seem to care what I wanted and wasn't interested in asking any questions to help guide me in the right direction. Frankly, I felt like I was inconveniencing him judging by his responses.

You'd think on a $15K motor, they would want to make sure you had exactly what you needed so there were no issues down the road. That is what they do at SD, so I spent my money with them. Dave has gone out of his way to help me make sure I have a successful install.

I highly recommend SD Performance. I personally like Jim Butler and he is very helpful but can't say the same for at least one person who answers the telephone there. :-)

[GTOLou]

Originally Posted by Doug1

I just bought from SD again this past week. I have used both but SD definitely handles their customers better. The guy I called at Butler didn't seem to care what I wanted and wasn't interested in asking any questions to help guide me in the right direction. Frankly, I felt like I was inconveniencing him judging by his responses.

You'd think on a $15K motor, they would want to make sure you had exactly what you needed so there were no issues down the road. That is what they do at SD, so I spent my money with them. Dave has gone out of his way to help me make sure I have a successful install.

I highly recommend SD Performance. I personally like Jim Butler and he is very helpful but can't say the same for at least one person who answers the telephone there. :-)

I couldn't agree more w/ these comments. 5-6 years ago had Butler do a shortblock for me (474) and last year did a 535 w/ them. It was kind of a hassle w/ the 535. I ALSO, felt a little like I was inconviniencing them as well. There is a cat there (name eludes me) who is just a pain to deal with. The builds were great..took me awhile to get what I wanted on the 535. At the same time I ordered some Eheads from Dave at SD - he was great and has been with other stuff. In addition - he helped me TELL Butler what I wanted w/ the 535 specs..had to beg almost to get it. I've heard great stuff from about other folks, Dude, Jim at CVMS, Spotts, etc. Kaufmann did some KRE dports a few years back...no problems.


Typically, I'd say go with a good name who is pretty close. I'll not use that rule again - as the Butlers are closest to me.

[hal101]

SD is the best IMO

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by hal101

SD is the best IMO

ABSOLUTELY!

[performerrpm]

never had anyone build my motor but sd di my heads and if i were to ever have anyone build one for me it would be them.

best thing about them is they will answer any questions you have and not act like your taking to much time.....

[Thumpin455_GTO]

Butlers have treated me good, the only complaint I have about anything I have gotten from them is one block had a helicoil in it and it wasnt drilled straight. I dont know if they installed it or if someone else did, but that has been the only thing that wasnt right. All the heads they have done for me have been great and when I call them David and Jim will spend enough time answering questions. Even Joy is courteous and helpful. They were very gracious when one of my engines ended up sitting in the shop for four years, long story how that happened, but they were considerate and understanding.

Years back I emailed SD about heads, and he wouldnt sell me what I wanted. I dont blame him with the engine I was running at the time, since it was a stock rod 455. Its not that he wouldnt do business with me, he just considered that engine a grenade and putting the heads I was looking at on it would have accelerated its demise. He wasnt incorrect and he was very helpful. I am thinking about sending them a set of 48s I have for the next build, but for me it depends on shipping since any of them could do the work I need on them.

I called Kaufmans and they were great on the phone too, no rush to get rid of me or get a credit card number like one guy out on the west coast. I havent actually bought anything from them, but other than the block fiasco a few years back I dont hear much bad about them. I might get a set of heads from them in the near future, but now I do all my blocks locally so I dont have to ship those things around the country.

Other than the one particular guy whom I dont even think is still in business, you would probably be ok with anyone mentioned in this thread. I realize everyone is human and mistakes happen, doesnt matter what your name is. They all have satisfied customers or they wouldnt be in business, especially now.