[GTO JONES]

I have a 400 I would like to get updated, the guy I got it from had it rebuilt ! ! so he said. I would like to up grade it with a 2.75 1st and the rest of the stuff. Any idea what the cost would be. The one in the car has just started to slip in 3rd.

[jakeshoe]

2.75 gearset is $600 alone (not TCI junk).

My Street/Strip unit is $1000, the gearset would be $600 on top of that. I USUALLY try to talk people out of the gearset. IMO there are really limited applications that need it. A HEAVY car with GOOD traction, and weak motor. I would usually rather see someone spend the $600 on their motor to make it stronger, or a rear gear change, etc.

However, the gearset does have it's place. A class racer, a street car with low-mid 3 rear gears and no overdrive, etc.

[Cliff R]

The transmission being "rebuilt" doesn't necessarily save any money. "Rebiult" to some is nothing more than replacing a few gaskets, seals and friction material. If it was done by a shop, most of the material is most likely nicely used frictions and lightly sanded used steel plates they removed from used transmissions. If they installed a "shift kit", this is typically nothing more than tossing out a couple of check balls and enlarging a few holes in the separator plate.

I've had plenty of "rebuilt" unts brought in here over the years, and almost always have observed the same thing. Shops tend to spend as little money as possible on them, and charge the customer a very high price for the work........Cliff

[PLAY400]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

The transmission being "rebuilt" doesn't necessarily save any money. "Rebiult" to some is nothing more than replacing a few gaskets, seals and friction material. If it was done by a shop, most of the material is most likely nicely used frictions and lightly sanded used steel plates they removed from used transmissions. If they installed a "shift kit", this is typically nothing more than tossing out a couple of check balls and enlarging a few holes in the separator plate.

I've had plenty of "rebuilt" unts brought in here over the years, and almost always have observed the same thing. Shops tend to spend as little money as possible on them, and charge the customer a very high price for the work........Cliff

Hey someone has to use all those old parts up!! Have a few Buddies that make a living "rebuilding" transmissions using parts out of the pails and you have described their operation to a T. Unfortunately I see them getting left behind lately with the newer sh1t as they are all starting to use replacement units from a couple of large wholesale rebuilders. Haven't got the equipment to do the job anymore.

[TTS]

Stock 400's- about 400hp
Stock 400 with dual feed and plate work- 500 up to 600 if the transmission was built correctly stock and it has the 34 element sprag.

Rebuilt means lots of different things to lots of different people. Some are surprised to find out the differences.

Just like in an engine, some upgraded transmission parts are critical to operation, some are just insurance. Those insurance parts are what cost money. Transmission building is an exercise in creativity, there are many ways to achieve the results you're after. Some are better than others, some in the long term are not so good.

Parts such as different colored frictions can play a huge roll in transmission life when the HP gets turned up. Not so much friction life, but hard part life. It's the combination of parts in the assembly that makes it work right. If you build a trans by the book, + install a commercial shift kit performance frictions probably won't help much.

[Cliff R]

Since I live sort of in the "sticks", and have a very good reputation for transmission work, as I build for a couple of local shops, troubleshoot for them, etc. This will bring a few locals out here on occassion wanting tranmission work done.

I know full well they have already contacted a few of the larger transmission shops in the area, and know exactly what it's going to cost for a shop build.

Even so, they just about have a heart attack when they here what it's going to cost! Then, they'll say that Billy-Bob or Bubba over on the other side of some little no name town does them for $250, parts included!

I'll spend nearly twice that just on parts!

Every unit here gets a FULL set of bushings, yes, even the hard to get to ones, thrust washers, sprags, steels, frictions, bands, shift kit, upgraded where needed, filter, modulator, seals, sealing rings, etc, etc.

Most "builders" I know buy the basic seal kit, then only install paper and rubber in their units, EVERYTHING else comes out of the back room where it had been hanging on nails for years.

It's quite common to tear down a tranmssion, TH400 for example, and find three different types of clutch material in the same drum!.......Cliff

[TTS]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Most "builders" I know buy the basic seal kit, then only install paper and rubber in their units, EVERYTHING else comes out of the back room where it had been hanging on nails for years.

It's quite common to tear down a tranmssion, TH400 for example, and find three different types of clutch material in the same drum!.......Cliff

And those different frictions are between blued steels that have been scuffed with emory, covered by a dished pressure plate, in a worn out drum.

We must know some of the same people.

[taff2]

Guys, what's the best rebuild race kit for the TH400? Where can I get it and how much? Thanks.

[Cliff R]

"And those different frictions are between blued steels that have been scuffed with emory, covered by a dished pressure plate, in a worn out drum.

We must know some of the same people."

Yep, lately they are using a high speed air tool with abrasive disks to "rough" up the blued steel plates, saves time!

I've never seen a kit complete enough that some additional parts were not required for the build.

For the TH400, we replace the apply pistons, and order extra steels in several thicknesses, for custom stacking the drums. I order the shortest aluminum apply pistons, with a check ball, then remove it from the drum if it happens to be there. If the check balls in the drums are leaking, they are difficult to repair anyhow.....Cliff

[jakeshoe]

Cliff,
I sell "complete" kits. Aside from what I would consider hard parts, they include everything I use to rebuild and update the trans.
Full set of frictions, both bands, all the steels, OH kit, rear output bearing and shim kit, full set of thrusts, full bushing kit, filter, fiber pan gasket, HD snap ring for the int pressure plate, plugs for dual feed and accumulator mods, etc.

Sprags and drums are "hard parts" so I sell them seperately but I custom build kits for guys that do their own. Upgraded hard parts, etc.

You are right, there aren't really any other "complete" kits out there.

I cut apply pistons on the lathe as necessary, so I don't order too many new ones. I do keep a few GM direct pressure plates on the shelf though.

The roloc disc steel refinishing is nice huh?

[Cliff R]

A complete kit really isn't possible, unless one were to include a new direct drum sprag, race and spiral would retaining ring in the kit. Even then, there is often a hard part here and there that needs replaced.

The customer may not need all of these items if his trans already has a smooth drum in it, and it's in good shape.

A "complete kit" would need to be a custom kit, and assembled/priced after talking to the customer about their specific needs.

Some TH400's will have steel apply pistons, so we like to keep a few aluminum ones around. We often end up taking some material off of them with the lathe to get the friction capacity and end play for the clutch pack we are looking for.

We're just about out of the transmission game anyhow, since I quit shipping them around. It's impossible to compete with the local "builders" who work off of the picnic table in their back yard, and do complete rebuilds for half the cost of the parts we use in them here!......Cliff

[TTS]

My kit's a little more advanced than "race only", http://starnesperformance.com/Rebuild%20Packages.htm but can put together something more basic.

[Cliff R]

I forgot to mention that just a few weeks ago a pretty good friend of mine mentioned in passing that he had his transmission "rebuilt", TH350 for an older Chevy 4 X 4 truck. "Oh really, why didn't you bring it up here", I asked him. Guy at work's brother in laws next door neighbors 2nd cousin did it for $150, parts included!

That's what I'm dealing with in this area!......Cliff

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

I forgot to mention that just a few weeks ago a pretty good friend of mine mentioned in passing that he had his transmission "rebuilt", TH350 for an older Chevy 4 X 4 truck. "Oh really, why didn't you bring it up here", I asked him. Guy at work's brother in laws next door neighbors 2nd cousin did it for $150, parts included!

That's what I'm dealing with in this area!......Cliff

Did that include the $1.19 can of Walmart degreaser and $1.19 can of brake degreaser?
I'd trust that tranny like I trust my ex.

[Cliff R]

Not sure?....But I think they borrowed their 3rd cousins next door neighbors pressure washer that was stolen from the local tool rental place last year!.....Cliff

[jakeshoe]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

A complete kit really isn't possible, unless one were to include a new direct drum sprag, race and spiral would retaining ring in the kit. Even then, there is often a hard part here and there that needs replaced.

The customer may not need all of these items if his trans already has a smooth drum in it, and it's in good shape.

A "complete kit" would need to be a custom kit, and assembled/priced after talking to the customer about their specific needs.

Some TH400's will have steel apply pistons, so we like to keep a few aluminum ones around. We often end up taking some material off of them with the lathe to get the friction capacity and end play for the clutch pack we are looking for.

We're just about out of the transmission game anyhow, since I quit shipping them around. It's impossible to compete with the local "builders" who work off of the picnic table in their back yard, and do complete rebuilds for half the cost of the parts we use in them here!......Cliff

Cliff,
I haven't really had issue with my pricing, I have more demand than I can keep up with. I have no problem with the guy that can't afford my prices "now" and takes it to the meth addict down the road who does them for $300-400.
They'll get tired of pulling it sooner or later.

I have also all but quit shipping transmissions.

I do custom assemble most kits, did one last week for an AMC racer, ~1000 HP setup, no t-brake. I added a rollerized steel forward hub and some other odds and ends to the kit.

Jake

[Cliff R]

Jake, we can put together a very complete kit, no problem. Some order them without question, other times the line goes dead when I tell them the price! It is even more complete if the customer has the unit apart and I can ask them a few basic questions. This tells me if I need to supply a smooth drum with the sprag and spiral ring, and if I need to supply aluminum apply pistons with or without a check ball in them.

The rest of the items are pretty standard, and we send a few extra frictions and different thickness steel plates to allow some room for custom stacking the drums for additional clutch capacity.

An experienced builder should have access to a lathe, or plan on making a few careful calculations and carrying some parts to a machine shop for modifications to the apply pistons for additional frictions or to get the desired clutch end pack clearance, or both.

Haven't had the need to add any torrington thrust washers anyplace or rollerized hub, etc. My own TH400 was built in the mid-80's, and survived fine behind 4 different engines, nearly 100,000 miles of street driving, and thousands of track runs, it died on the 2nd pass behind our "new" 455 in 2001. I went completely through it, and it's been fine now behind two 600 ft lbs torque engines ever since. We're pulling it next month just to "freshen" it up, because it has quite a few runs on it, and I'm going to test a new converter this season......Cliff

As for upgrades, we always restrict the oil flow to the converter, drive in a 200 center support seal as of a few years ago, and we have always used the "Jack Armstrong" snap ring, they come in the better Transgo shift kits, I ran out of the Chrysler rings years ago......Cliff

[ONEFASTLEMANS]

hey cliff dont forget to mention that 350 turbo behind my little motor,that you did.not a 400 turbo,but still doing pretty good

[Cliff R]

For sure, but we can't tell folks that the "little" TH350 we set up for your car 7-8 years ago has held up to the constant abuse from a stout 455 and now a 505 running 10.0's at over 130mph. With a few suspension and chassis mods you'll be in the 9's this season!.....Cliff

[jakeshoe]

The TH350 is a tough trans. It's biggest issue is just the fact that it is rough on bushings and the core problems previously mentioned.

It has plenty of clutch capacity.

Planets get iffy around the 750-800 HP range.

I have a few out there going fast and lasting well, but the cost to build them isn't really any cheaper than a TH400 with the cores being shot, the rebuild parts are about the same, and the good sprag/drum combos are usually $300 in the aftermarket. However a savvy trans guy can make the drums

I used to keep build cost down by making the drums for myself but I rarely build TH350s anymore.