[GR8ONE68]

Hoping Cliff and Jake will chime in here. I read the 2004R post from August, some real good stuff there from both Cliff and Jake. MY 200-4R was built be Chris at CK Performance. I had it in the car and it worked real well for a while. Mainly street driven with an occasional trip to the strip. I believe the problems that I had were due to improper TV cable set up. I have the TV assembly from Bow Tie Overdrives, TV made EZ. I just had the trans rebuilt by at a local trans shop, the guy races GN's and knows the 200's very well. When it is set with the factory method, pull to WOT and lock it down, it does not get pressure until I am around 4,000 RPM in park. When I set it so that I have pressure with the slightest amount of throttle, I can only get about half throttle out of it before the TV cable "bottoms out." Reading TV 101 on BTO's website, I should change the TV spring. I have a GN valve body and would like to stick with the stock spring. Obviously, I need to change the geometry.

I have attached two pictures, one is a sketch of the throttle assembly the other is a picture of my Edelbrock carb. with the BTO TV assembly. I need to solve for dimension A-D (in sketch) to correct the geometry. First of all, point D will be set so that the trans pressure begins to rise with the slightest throttle movement. Please check the formula in the sketch and give me a reality check. Once I get the geometry straight, I should be able to set the TV cable by the factory method. Is my thinking correct?

Side Note: During this I realized that I have not had full throttle since I put the 455 in. I cut some of the metal tubing that surrounds the throttle cable which allowed the throttle to move more, significantly more.

[Malky]

Yep, I agree with your math. The important thing is to locate the TV cable attachment point at the right radius from the throttle plate pivot so it starts increasing pressure as you come off idle and reaches the end of the TV cable travel at WOT. (This is with the TV made EZ set to the "mildest" setting.)
I couldn't mount the TV made EZ on the lower part of my q'jet throttle linkage plate to get the right radius so I cut of the lower part and screwed on a small piece of plate that I could mount the TV Made EZ to, move it around to get the right radius, and then clamp it down.
Once set up, moving the TV Made EZ cam to a more aggressive setting pulls the TV cable out more at idle to increase pressure but still coincides full TV cable extension with WOT. It makes shifts very hard, at least it does on my BTO 2004R.

[Overkillphil]

We always just copied the geometry from our GN's to our carbed musclecars. Not just the distance from the pivot point but the degrees of inclination in relation to the throttle stud.

Copying directly from the General himself has never failed us. But it is amazing how a tiny bit of incorrect geometry can make the trans act like a circus clown.

[GR8ONE68]

Thanks, Guys. I'm using the 300 PSI gage to get it right. I burned up one 200-4R, I don't want to do it again.

I am surprised that there is not more discussion on the TV cable set up. We hear about all the hard parts, which are necessary, but you can have all of the hard parts and burn up a transmission in no time with an improper TV cable set up. There are two critical set up points. The first is that the cable is set to increase pressure with the slightest movement of the throttle. The second is that the TV cable is fully extended at WOT. Both set points are equally important.

[TTS]

It sounds like you either have a worn tv sleeve/ valve assembly, a sticky tv valve, a leak in the circuit, or a weak spring.

An equally progressive (throttle with cable) or greater geometry is needed for a 2004R or 700R4 to live. If the components and assembly are right, the cable setting is very easy.

If there are problems in the circuit, it's like trying to adjust a carburetor when the timing is off. It's impossible to get right.

[TTS]

Originally Posted by GR8ONE68

There are two critical set up points. The first is that the cable is set to increase pressure with the slightest movement of the throttle. The second is that the TV cable is fully extended at WOT. Both set points are equally important.

The cable will provide pressure at the slightest throttle movement provided the geometry is correct in the first place.

Both set points are not equally important, though both are important. If the geometry is short at the transmission cable, you may have late light throttle upshifts, and will be allowing the pump to wear more quickly from excessive boost- or not. If there is slack in the cable (longer cable geometry) the transmission doesn't have a chance.

[GR8ONE68]

Originally Posted by TTS

The cable will provide pressure at the slightest throttle movement provided the geometry is correct in the first place.

TTS, that is exactly what I am trying to do, get the geometry right. Right now it is not correct. I need to shorten the distance between the TV connection point and the pivot point. What do you think the travel distance of the TV cable should be from the point at which the pressure starts to rise and fully extended?

[TTS]

If memory serves me, 1.7:1, or is it 1.8:1? Regardless- the bowtie deal is golden, Steve Holmes, RIP was brilliant by designing it.

I'm not sure what to tell you. I have yet to see a BTO cable assembly not up to snuff.

I have however seen many who do not grasp the concept, not saying you are one- many things can happen. More often than not though, it's an installer problem. If you where closer (than the earth's core) I'd say bring it over, but we both know that's not possible.

I delivered a TH350 the other day as an example. The owner complained he couldn't get the shifter adjusted. A drive and 30 seconds or so later, all was well. I don't know for sure, I'm only guessing with no horses in the race, you aren't following the instructions exactly.

[GR8ONE68]

Are you saying 1.7" of throttle pull = 1" of TV cable pull? If so, that would be the issue. I currently have just about 1:1. If you look at the picture in my first post, you can see the distance is about the same between the throttle and TV from the pivot point.

[wheelspin]

I have installed three BTO TV Made EZ kits, including the one on my GTO's 700R4, and the spring in the valve body must be changed to the spring that comes w/ the kit in order to allow full travel of the TV cable and the throttle arm (per the instructions). Changing the spring does not alter the trans shifting in any way, it allows the additional travel required by BTO's clever adjustable "snail cam" piggyback setup.

The most important setting is: @ a normal curb idle in neutral w/ the pressure gauge installed you should see a 3-5 psi rise when reconnecting the TV cable from having the TV cable disconnected from the throttle arm, indicating that you are on the pressure increase curve.

Les

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by wheelspin

I have installed three BTO TV Made EZ kits, including the one on my GTO's 700R4, and the spring in the valve body must be changed to the spring that comes w/ the kit in order to allow full travel of the TV cable and the throttle arm (per the instructions). Changing the spring does not alter the trans shifting in any way, it allows the additional travel required by BTO's clever adjustable "snail cam" piggyback setup.

The most important setting is: @ a normal curb idle in neutral w/ the pressure gauge installed you should see a 3-5 psi rise when reconnecting the TV cable from having the TV cable disconnected from the throttle arm, indicating that you are on the pressure increase curve.

Les

x2 . You have to use the spring in the kit....

.

[antique69lemans]

Originally Posted by GR8ONE68

Are you saying 1.7" of throttle pull = 1" of TV cable pull? If so, that would be the issue. I currently have just about 1:1. If you look at the picture in my first post, you can see the distance is about the same between the throttle and TV from the pivot point.

I don't want to add confusion here, but from my perspective the TV cable does not care how much linear accel. throttle distance there is,or any ratio tied to that. Isn't the true relationship throttle angle to TV cable? The degrees from which you start off idle determine the line pressure rise, and the distance of that point from rotation axis determines linear cable travel? Your diagram seems to be overthinking it a bit. I have retrofitted a 2004r and two 700r4s with various carbs. I made my own throttle arm bracket to emulate GM and never had any problems.I would follow some other suggestions here and look into possible hydraulic issue in the tranny, especially the TV sleeve spring.

[harry k]

this issue orignally has been adressed by transmission parts solution developer company called Sonnax industries http://www.sonnax.com/instructions/AS3-03K-IN.pdf
and almost all aftermarket vendors such as TCI B&M and others carry this part that adresses what you need , even Summit carries them in their name now called "throtle valve corrector"
done many installs with Edelbrock carbs in various BOP makes with 0 problems

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...tci-376710.pdf
Summit SUM-700203
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

www.HKMotorsportsDynoShop.com

[GR8ONE68]

Thanks, Les. I am sure that is the issue.

How were your holidays? I don't know if you remember, but we met at Pontiac Heaven a couple of years ago. Bud Lyons and I came out for the event.

[milkcrateracing]

Originally Posted by harry k

this issue orignally has been adressed by transmission parts solution developer company called Sonnax industries http://www.sonnax.com/instructions/AS3-03K-IN.pdf
and almost all aftermarket vendors such as TCI B&M and others carry this part that adresses what you need , even Summit carries them in their name now called "throtle valve corrector"
done many installs with Edelbrock carbs in various BOP makes with 0 problems

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...tci-376710.pdf
Summit SUM-700203
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

www.HKMotorsportsDynoShop.com

Has anyone adapted this to a qjet. Not an edlebrock qjet but a gm qudrajet. This looks like the slick answer to tv geometry.

[harry k]

Originally Posted by milkcrateracing

Has anyone adapted this to a qjet. Not an edlebrock qjet but a gm qudrajet. This looks like the slick answer to tv geometry.

late Q-jets have the correct arm on them to hook up your TV cable with correctTV bracket , you shouldn't be needing any other items like Edelbrock or Holley retrofit installs
but if you have an early Q-jet or either andnot to want worry about TV wot pressure line rise they offer this >http://www.sonnax.com/announcements/AS1-01K-1.pdf

WITHOUT these , this is the end results of so many 700R4 in the pics
www.HKMotorsportsDynoShop.com

[GR8ONE68]

Harry,

Thank you. I already have the TV made EZ, however, for $21.00 that looks like an easier change than pulling the trans pan and changing the spring.

Kevin

[wheelspin]

Hey Kevin,

My Holidays are going great, how about yours? Yes, I do remember talking Pontiacs @ Steve's bar-b-q with you guys @ Pontiac Heaven; and speaking of that event, aren't you two about due for a "road trip" to Phoenix in 09 ?

Les

[GR8ONE68]

Bud and I were talking about taking a road trip to either Norwalk or Pontiacs in the Park this year. I want to take the GTO for a long cruise and thought that they would be good choices. I don't think I will drive to Phoeinx, I made that drive once before when I moved the family back to Delaware. We lived in Chandler, AZ for 3 years. That is where I bought my GTO, it's a true AZ car. It was made in the Freemont, CA plant. I might make the trip to Pontiac Heaven, my son goes to ASU now and it would be a good way to visit with him and see all of the Western half of the Pontiac world again. I'll talk with Bud and see if he wants to make the trip. Flights are cheap between Philadelphia and Phoenix and my brother lives in Chandler so we have a place to stay.

To All: Have a safe and happy New Year.

[harry k]

Originally Posted by GR8ONE68

Harry,

Thank you. I already have the TV made EZ, however, for $21.00 that looks like an easier change than pulling the trans pan and changing the spring.

Kevin

that TV made EZ bussines thing , doesn't sound like any EZ now