[gtofreek]

Also, the customer I refer to in the post above brought us his BBC out of his 90 something Suburban about a year ago. He bragged how he has used Mobil One in it since it was new. When we tore it down with a little over 100,000 miles, it was a sludge bucket inside! Probably because of those supposed 7,000-10,000 oil changes.

[Hillard]

I keep hearing about Mobil One. I think of Mobil One about the same way I think of Fram filters....big name, but that's all.
I'm a firm believer in AmsOil. I can show you an 400 engine right now that's in a 75 Grandville with 207,000 miles on it. It's been in the family since 1977 and has never been apart with the exception of a new timing chain at 150,000 and has had nothing used in it except AmsOil. The oil was changed once a year. The car has only stopped being used because the body is falling apart. The engine is as clean inside as you will find. As far as more horsepower, I would love to see a direct comparison of petroleum against AmsOil. I haven't personally done this but, like I said before, I know someone who swears it made more power in his super stocker.
I freshened up the motor in our 67 GTO drag car last year. That was the first time it had been out in 10 years. I admit we don't run every weekend but that's 10 years of running mid 10's with a 455 stock crank motor going through the traps at 6400 and everything including the bearings still looked good. Oh, almost forgot, we change the oil in it once a year also. Call me crazy, but I have proof, so I think I'll stick with the Amsoil for now.

[GTOLIB]

Originally Posted by 1050goat

I keep hearing about Mobil One. I think of Mobil One about the same way I think of Fram filters....big name, but that's all.
I'm a firm believer in AmsOil. I can show you an 400 engine right now that's in a 75 Grandville with 207,000 miles on it. It's been in the family since 1977 and has never been apart with the exception of a new timing chain at 150,000 and has had nothing used in it except AmsOil. The oil was changed once a year. The car has only stopped being used because the body is falling apart. The engine is as clean inside as you will find. As far as more horsepower, I would love to see a direct comparison of petroleum against AmsOil. I haven't personally done this but, like I said before, I know someone who swears it made more power in his super stocker.
I freshened up the motor in our 67 GTO drag car last year. That was the first time it had been out in 10 years. I admit we don't run every weekend but that's 10 years of running mid 10's with a 455 stock crank motor going through the traps at 6400 and everything including the bearings still looked good. Oh, almost forgot, we change the oil in it once a year also. Call me crazy, but I have proof, so I think I'll stick with the Amsoil for now.

I agree ,seen it myself ,I have been an Amsoil dealer since 1989.
I have run it in everyhting I owned since ,snowmobiles,lawn mowers , boat ,high mileaged cars and new. etc
Why doesn't amsoil use zinc?
my 428 had 20-50 since 91 ,solid cam /hyd cam ,no problems with no zinc.
just tore in down this winter , no sludge ,clean ,normal wear .
this motor seen 260deg through the traps , over heats in traffic ,NOS,gas wash,
it's abused ,

[GTOLIB]

in 91 when i dynoed my 428 was stock ,the dyno shop was dynoing a sbc crate motor , is was a 342 hp vette motor ,center valve cover bolt /alum head ,
it dynoed at 341 severel pulls ,different timings jets etc , that was it .. just what is said it was ,this was his dyno mule ,the dyno was new
he used Val 10-40 , he changed to Redline 10-40 ,, gained 3-4 hp through the whole rpm range
not that you can feel it ,but the oil temps were lower, it was a change you can see .
IMO motor oil can't be blamed for part or engine failure , if it's made right and built right oil should't make it fail .
I have seen people not change their oil for 15,000 and 30,000 miles before the engine failed
I have Amoil and not changed the oil for 7500 miles ,change the filter and add 1qt in between . in 5 different cars that I have owned.

here is a good common sense info about oils ,

http://www.answers.com/topic/motor-oil-2

[gtofreek]

You know, I once rebuilt a Suzuki Samurai 4 cylinder engine that had 330,000 miles on it. The owner had it rebuilt because it was starting to burn a valve. He figured since it had 330,000 miles on it, the rest of the engine had to be worn out. When I tore it down, there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. The bearings looked like they were just installed. The cylinders had no measurable wear on them at all. The crank looked like it had never been run. We honed it and polished the crank and re-ringed and bearinged it. The customer had only ran cheap store bought oil in it for it's whole life. I personally have had engines with over 200,000 miles on them with regular oil used in them with no issues. And there's thousands of others out there with stories like these also, so, with that said, engines will last even with dino oils in them.

Something else, GTOlib mentioned someone switching to Redline oil and the oil temps went down. This sounds good at first but stop and think about this:

The engine oil does 70% of the engines cooling. The radiator only has to deal with the 30% the oil can't control. If the oil temp is running lower, it suggests to me that the oil isn't removing as much heat from the parts. This does not equate to a good thing to me. My boss[I use this term loosely] has a 640 horse 460 Ford in his boat and when he used to run regular store bought oil in it the oil temps would run around 235° and the oil pressure would drop. When he started using the Brad Penn oil, the oil temp went up to 250° but the pressure would stay up. The Brad Penn oil was removing more heat from the engine but yet was not breaking down like regular store bought oil did.

Now, one could say, the oil isn't lubing as good so it is causing more friction which is causing the oil temp to go up. But if that were true the water temp would go up and he would have other engine problems too like burning up bearings and ruining cam lobes. He runs a flat tappet cam in it also with almost 400 lbs. of open spring pressure and 150 lbs. on the seat. And no, he is not running his roller flat tappet lifters in it either, yet!

Basically, you will hear good and bad stories about both. It boils down to what people have the best luck with. Some people like KRE, and some don't. Some like Comp Cams, and some don't. Some like synthetic oil, and some don't. 'Nuff said!

[Z Code 400]

Paul,

You bring up an excellent point, not previously mentioned in these debates about lubricants. makes you wonder, doesn't it???...Robert

[Tom Vaught]

Based on your assumption, a good easy to verify test would be to put a restrictor plate in the Thermostat location and take some water temp readings on an even temperature day.

Drain out the anti-freeze and put in pure water and rerun the test.

Now everything else is the same and post what the difference in the readings was. Water is the best conductor of heat out of the engine. Pure anti-freeze does a lousy job. A 50/50 mix of antifreeze and oil is purely based on making the engine survive in below 0 (freezing) temperatures.

Course you cannot do a Ray Cox and run pure water and THINK YOU HAVE ALL OF THE WATER OUT OF THE BLOCK. Adding a gallon of antifreeze at the race season will guarantee that you don't crack the block like he did. Flush the block with pure water when the race season starts again.

Personally I would like to see how much the water temp delta was as differences in oil can't possibly be as big of a delta in temperature.

JMO

Tom V.

[Z Code 400]

Ironic....We ran a 427 Ford in our race car with a flat tappet solid lifter and 300+ pounds open pressure on Shell 20/50 Ashless/Dispersant Aviation Oil and we used nothing else for the life of the engine. We logged over 100,000 miles on our 429 Ford tow vehicle with 275 pounds open pressure on the same oil. The cam and lifters still looked decent on tear down, despite the total lack of ZDDP...Robert

[Hillard]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Basically, you will hear good and bad stories about both. It boils down to what people have the best luck with. Some people like KRE, and some don't. Some like Comp Cams, and some don't. Some like synthetic oil, and some don't. 'Nuff said!

I totally agree with you on this.


BTW....I know this is off topic, but I would still like pricing on the cryogenics when you have it.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by 1050goat

I totally agree with you on this.


BTW....I know this is off topic, but I would still like pricing on the cryogenics when you have it.

I've been working on that and am about done with a price sheet. Will post soon! Thanks for the interest.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Also, the customer I refer to in the post above brought us his BBC out of his 90 something Suburban about a year ago. He bragged how he has used Mobil One in it since it was new. When we tore it down with a little over 100,000 miles, it was a sludge bucket inside! Probably because of those supposed 7,000-10,000 oil changes.

I buy synthetic by the gallon, for daily drivers, I do the 10K oil changes as well, BUT I change the filter and add the 1/2 quart every 5K. just cause it doesnt break down, doesnt mean the detergent isnt working. still need a filter change. I use fram double, or extra guard filters, their regular ones are junk.

[TinjunTribe]

I ran across a thread on another site while researching oil, each oil has the date from which the testing was done, and who tested...............

Name Vis P (ppm) Zn (ppm) B (ppm) Detergents (ppm) API Date Type Source
Amerilube 10w50 1254 1115 3001 SL 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Amsoil AFL Euro 5w40 701 804 50 1452 SL 11/06 SYN Staveley
Amsoil HDEO 5w40 794 1081 2276 CJ-4 11/06 SYN Staveley
Amsoil Series 2000 Racing 20w50 1014 1123 12 3209 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Amsoil V-Twin/MC 20w50 1193 1281 3564 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Amsoil XL-7500 5w20 434 532 165 1601 SL 08/06 SEMI Blackstone
Amsoil XL-7500 5w20 334 1096 209 3061 SL 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Castrol Act Evo 20w50 765 1126 1724 SG 05/06 DINO Staveley
Castrol GPS 4STK MC2 20w50 767 1133 1544 SG 05/06 SYN Staveley
Castrol GTX 20w50 1157 1422 1848 SM 11/05 DINO Staveley
Castrol GTX High Mile 20w50 1248 1382 1848 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Castrol Syntec 5w40 786 918 1979 SL 09/06 SYN Blackstone
Castrol Syntec 5w50 921 914 58 2628 SM 11/05 SYN Staveley
Castrol Syntec Blend 20w50 937 916 1197 SM 03/07 SEMI Staveley
Castrol Tection Extra 15w40 965 1094 46 2461 CI-4 3/07 DINO Blackstone
Castrol TWS 10w60 425 1294 111 2383 SJ 06/06 SYN Staveley
Chevron Delo 400 15w40 1191 1622 3668 CI-4 06/06 DINO Staveley
Delvac 1 5w40 1390 1803 76 2583 CI-4 11/05 SYN Staveley
Delvac 1300 Super 15w40 1380 1702 78 2388 CI-4 11/05 DINO Staveley
Elf 505.01 VW 5w40 584 1092 2691 SL 05/06 SYN Staveley
Exxon Av Break-in oil 20w50 1 4 23 N/A 11/05 DINO Staveley
Exxon Av Oil 20w50 702 32 33 N/A 11/05 SEMI Staveley
Exxon Superflow 20w50 717 848 96 2650 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Ford Motorcraft 5w20 545 848 298 2005 SM 01/07 SEMI Staveley
Harley Davidson Syn3 20w50 1081 1182 264 1482 SG 11/05 SYN Staveley
Havoline 20w50 425 494 87 1049 SM 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Joe Gibbs Racing XP5 20w50 920 1231 504 SG 04/07 SEMI Blackstone
Kendal GT (Vintage) 20W50 1229 1415 2408 SE 11/05 DINO Blackstone
Kendall GT 20w50 904 1233 2885 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Kendall GT 10w30 582 872 278 1416 SM 11/05 SEMI Staveley
Kendall GT 10w40 598 897 282 1565 SM 11/05 SEMI Staveley
Lucas High Perf. Motor Oil 20w50 386 460 214 1079 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 761 876 167 2630 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 796 907 178 2650 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 808 976 185 3256 SL 04/03 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 706 834 148 2246 SM 02/05 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 15w50 952 1030 41 2175 SM 03/07 SYN Staveley
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1193 1376 228 2970 SL 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1062 1279 79 2485 SM 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 906 1024 72 2071 SM 01/06 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1315 1428 226 2593 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley
Mobil 1 mx4t 10w40 1277 1460 188 2025 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 mx4t 10w40 1411 1623 188 2248 SG 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 R 0w30 1399 1536 178 3051 SG 02/04 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 Super Syn 15w50 1343 1390 205 2601 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley
Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5w40 1034 1247 51 2826 CI-4 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 V Twin 20w50 1329 1949 204 2130 SG 11/05 SYN Staveley
Mobil 5k Clean 10w40 660 1028 2895 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Mobil High Mile 10w40 527 1021 2844 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Motul 300V Competition 5w40 1317 1409 19 3273 SH 04/05 SYN Blackstone
Motul 300V Competition 15w50 1139 1130 20 2410 SH 05/05 SYN Blackstone
Motul 505.01 VW 5w40 973 1226 2830 SL 05/06 SYN Staveley
Motul Competition 15w50 1148 1327 11 2723 SH 05/06 SYN Staveley
Motul Tekma Mega 15w40 1220 1737 145 3469 CI-4 05/06 DINO Staveley
Mystik 15w40 1130 1224 3104 CI-4 03/07 DINO Staveley
Mystik 10w50 700 799 2003 CI-4 03/07 SEMI Blackstone
Penn Grade 1 Racing 20w50 664 852 2094 SJ 04/07 SEMI Blackstone
Penn Grade 1 Racing 20w50 801 1058 2827 SJ 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Pennzoil 20w50 501 800 223 2062 SM 01/07 DINO Staveley
Quaker State Q Full Syn 5w50 923 908 1917 SM 11/05 SYN Staveley
Redline 15w50 924 1004 27 2287 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Redline 10w40 1440 1872 3039 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley
Rotella 15w40 843 946 26 1881 CJ-4 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Rotella 15w40 1278 1555 2946 CI-4 11/05 DINO Staveley
Rotella 5w40 1397 1552 2921 CI-4 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple 20w50 668 763 2034 SJ 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Royal Purple 20w50 1290 1337 3295 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple Max Cycle 10w40 4085 1222 2599 SJ 07/05 SYN Blackstone
Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50 3179 1030 2142 SJ 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50 3907 1458 2478 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple Racing 51 20w50 1285 1417 2639 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple XPR 10w40 1034 1741 2709 SJ 12/06 SYN Blackstone
Schaeffer 7000 Supreme 20w50 1249 1626 2451 SL 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Schaeffer 9000 Supreme 5w40 1113 1315 10 3126 SL 07/05 SYN Blackstone
Swepco 306 15w40 763 895 92 1732 CI-4 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Torco SR-1 20w50 363 412 759 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Torco SR-5 20w50 1072 830 10 1481 SG 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Torco T-4SR 20w50 1059 969 1293 SG 05/06 SYN Staveley
Torco TR-1 20w50 670 571 958 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Torco V Series ST 20w50 1030 1286 2231 SG 05/06 SEMI Staveley
Valvoline All Fleet Plus 15w40 1110 1232 3559 CI-4 10/06 DINO Staveley
Valvoline Durablend 20w50 566 732 13 2606 SM 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Valvoline Max Life 20w50 691 879 17 2170 SM 11/05 DINO Staveley
Valvoline Prem. Blue 15w40 1314 1838 158 4329 CI-4 06/06 DINO Staveley
Valvoline Synpower 20w50 605 689 1786 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Valvoline VR1 20w50 1085 1293 17 2242 SL 11/05 DINO Staveley
Valvoline VR-1 NSL 20w50 835 976 10 819 SL 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Valvoline VR-1 NSL 20w50 842 962 11 838 SL 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Bardahl No Leak/Smoke 53 4 0 11/05 O/A Staveley
Boron Motor Silk 116 0 05/06 O/A Staveley
CD-2 Maxx Detergent 1 7 2416 11/05 O/A Staveley
CMW Racing Concentrate 2292 1147 358 06/06 O/A Staveley
GM Cam Lifter Prelube 5710 5876 29004 01/07 O/A Blackstone
GM EOS Assembly Lube 5762 6221 8265 01/07 O/A Blackstone
Lucas Oil Stabilizer 36 13 0 01/07 O/A Staveley
Power Service Oil Extender 3567 4945 6394 11/05 O/A Staveley
Schaeffer Micron Moly 110 5 0 08/06 O/A Staveley
STP Blue 1704 2436 88 11/05 O/A Staveley
STP Red 2115 3932 901 11/05 O/A Staveley
Valvoline Max Life Protect 537 768 22 3871 11/05 O/A Staveley
Valvoline Synpower 356 551 650 11/05 O/A Staveley


Here are the running averages for all the oils tested thusfar:
API P (ppm) Zn (ppm) B (ppm) Mo (ppm) Ca (ppm) Mg (ppm) Na (ppm) Total Detergents
SE-SJ 1301 1280 151 357 1936 293 214 2443
CI-4 1150 1374 83 80 2642 199 2840
SL 994 1182 133 273 2347 109 22 2479
CJ-4 819 1014 26 2075 7 2082
SM 770 939 127 122 2135 13 139 2287