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Pontiac Business Entities Exchange Sources, Compliments and Grievances in regard to Pontiac parts or services rendered by an individual or business. |
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#41
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"For some reason a glaze passes over people's faces when you say "Canada". Maybe we should invade South Dakota or something." |
#42
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Never noticed all that mumbo jumbo legal talk before. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Never saw such a detailed statement on products before on any site. I'm no lawyer, but I understand it to read that any info pulled from their site, including picures without expressed consent is libel? That they might pursue action. That any issues are not going to be handle by K & M or KRE? They are no longer going to discuss any issues without a lawyer? Correct me if I'm wrong? |
#43
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I would be curious to know if one were to read about a product in a magazine and contact the company to purchase that product do you have a contractual obligation to read their website ? And if you did not read it prior to the sale, and NO paperwork was supplied with the product, does the info on the website still apply ?
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#44
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Legal mumbo jumbo
Not a lawyer but I think this is factual
Regarding copyright, all I have to say is "Fair Use" doctrine. This may not be factual The disclaimer on the website means nothing for a "walk-in customer", written contracts do. Ordering via a website.... I don't know, but I wouldn't buy from any merchant that expects customers to give up the right to a court vs. arbitration. Any legalese can be posted or put in a contract, but that doesn't necessarily mean its enforceable. For example, in most states, a waiver regarding negligience won't hold water in court, but that doesn't stop such a clause in many a contract. Again, anyone know how long the mumbo jumbo has been there? KenB
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71 Firebird Esprit 94 TA - 396 LT1 powered - Bought new in 1993. Total money pit Cars gone by - 76 Formula, 73 Esprit, 75 Esprit. 87 Buick WE4 |
#45
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It's funny, we are all trying to be lawyers here but most of us don't have a clue about the law, me included. If I were stuck with an MR-1 block I would be organizing a class action law suite, and hire a good lawyer that knows the law and will force KRE to be rsponsible.
Tim C
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Tim Corcoran |
#46
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1. A class action is not out of the question at this point. However, we are still going to give K&M and KRE their full 60 days to respond to the statutory notice/demand letters.
2. If they decide to ignore and/or refuse to resolve the problems, they will be sued. If they step up and take care of their customers, everyone will know about the final solution. |
#47
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I AM NOT A LAWYER... This is public information
Ohio Consumer Protection Law R.C. 1345.01 et seq §1345.02 Unfair or deceptive consumer sales practices prohibited. (A) No supplier shall commit an unfair or deceptive act or practice in connection with a consumer transaction. Such an unfair or deceptive act or practice by a supplier violates this section whether it occurs before, during, or after the transaction. (B) Without limiting the scope of division (A) of this section, the act or practice of a supplier in representing any of the following is deceptive: (1) That the subject of a consumer transaction has sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, uses, or benefits that it does not have; (2) That the subject of a consumer transaction is of a particular standard, quality, grade, style, prescription, or model, if it is not; Here is the whole thing.. http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/ocll-site/ocll-cplaw.html It is eerie... it also reads as if they are talking about their engine block! "performance characteristics, uses, benefits that it does not have" and "particular standard, quality, grade, prescription...." And for the arbitration deal.. §1345.04 Jurisdiction The courts of common pleas, and municiple or county courts within their respective monetary jurisdiction, have jurisdiction over any supplier with respect to any act or practice in this state covered by sections 1345.01 to 1345.13 of the Revised Code, or with respect to any claim arising from a consumer transaction subject to such sections. 109:4-3-10 Substantiation of claims in advertising. It shall be a deceptive act or practice in connection with a consumer transaction for a supplier to: (A) Make any representations, claims, or assertions of fact, whether orally or in writing, which would cause a reasonable consumer to believe such statements are true, unless, at the time such representations, claims, or assertions are made, the supplier possesses or relies upon a reasonable basis in fact such as factual, objective, quantifiable, clinical or scientific data or other competent and reliable evidence which substantiates such representations, claims, orassertions of fact; or (B) Fail, upon the written request of the attorney general or the attorney general’s representative, to produce within a reasonable time period specified, writtensubstantiating documentation, tests, studies, reports, or other data in the possession of the supplier at or prior to the time that representations, claims, or assertions are made about the supplier or the supplier’s goods or services.
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Saving the world... One country at a time. |
#48
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I don't know the facts of this KRE stuff, e.g. what kind of contracts or disclaimers they have or don't have or where they have or have not been published or to whom, but to try and impute some sort of bad faith based on these types of clauses being present in a web disclaimer or invoice or other document is plain silly. Generally speaking, if you had an internet business or just a business that sold goods to folks in other states, you would be an absolute fool to not have such provisions in every printed material your customers receive. Obviously, from a consumer's perspective, this stuff ain't very tasty nor would you want to be bound by it, but my point is that just because these kinds of contract terms may be in place, doesn't make the seller bad guys or girls, which seems to be the sentiment of some of the posts. Don't forget, sometimes these clauses hold up and sometimes they don't, but one thing they don't mean is that you do not have a claim.
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'70 GP Model J 462 Butler ported 87cc Edelbrock D-ports RPM intake with Holley Sniper 2 CompCams 236/242 hydraulic roller Tribal Tubes tri-y headers TH400 13" Continental "Jim Hand Special" 3.50 9" CurrieTrac, 245/45-18 Front, 275/40-18 Rear |
#49
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I love the internet!!!
It's amazing the things you can find so quickly these days in public records on the internet.
It turns out that K&M technically did not exist prior to last week (11/7/06 to be exact). The Ohio Secretary of States office (that registers businesses and keeps track of their business filing records) shows no records on file for K&M prior to 11/7/06, when K&M PERFORMANCE PARTS, LLC was registered as a business under the agents name of Steven A. Kauffman. On the same date, KRE did a conversion from a general partnership to a LLC. It's all public record. For anyone interested in viewing the information directly, go to the following link below: http://www1.sos.state.oh.us/pls/port...ON1.SHOW_PARMS Once there, type in KAUFFMAN RACING EQUIPMENT in the business name "bubble" and perform a plain search. It will pull up two registrations, their old one and the new one. From there you can click on the highlighted areas to see the actual legal documents. For K&M, type in K & M PERFORMANCE PARTS and do a fuzzy search. It'll pull up a page of business names, K&M is about halfway down the page. The newest docs that were filled out by the Kauffman's have not been posted yet, but the signed doc from the Ohio Secretary of State has for each transaction. What does this mean? It means that prior to 11/7/06, K&M technically did not exist, therefore, as far as Ohio state law is concerned, KRE would be considered the producer/manufacturer of any MR1 blocks sold prior to 11/7/06.
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
#50
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Wonder if any taxes have been paid in the past for that unregistered business in the last year?
Seems like Uncle Sam would be interested in that kind of information. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#51
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Here's something else to ponder. With KRE not having been registered as a LLC when these defective blocks were sold, if they can't make the customers whole, they've left themselves exposed to the potential for personal assets to be attached should a lawsuit entail out of this mess.
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
#52
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But it is very interesting that somehow now, in the middle of all else that going on with the controversy, they suddenly discover the benefits of becoming structured as a Limited Liability Corporation. Evidently some lawyer explained to someone that is one way for them to protect their personal assets from lawsuits relating to their business interests. Great job Brian! |
#53
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
#54
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but I just meant that as a sole proprietor, federal income taxes sould be filed under schedule C, with form 1040; A partnership as schedule E, under form 1040. State taxes generally follow form, in some cases only a summary form.
But when you're operating as a corporation for example, then you get into a whole different tax situation, and have to file form 1120 corporate return. As an "S Corporation" you get a combination, using form 1120S, but that gets wrapped back into your 1040 also. All of that however is "a distinction without a difference".........the REAL difference between how they were organized before 11/7 and after 11/7 has to do with the extent to which the personal assets of the owners are exposed to litigation. It will be interesting to see if that really matters though as respects transactions they made before the change in legal status was made. BTW, I'm not a lawyer, just a retired businessman having some experience in these things. |
#55
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I was guessing tax lawyer or accountant.;)
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
#56
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I think the whole thing will go back to WHO actually cast the blocks and WHAT exactly was on the purchace order when the order was placed.Hoping the casting co. has liability insurance and the blocks were not cast as ordered.The suit would go back to the deepest pocket.JMO,Tom
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#57
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
#58
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#59
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This is how you handle customer service (as opposed to lawyering up)
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151725 |
#60
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John...Just posting public information and facts...that's what the moderators wanted with this new post.
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. Last edited by dyingbreed; 11-17-2006 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Deleted offensive quote from another member |
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