[63HO3x2Cat421]

Hi all, i consider it a blessing i've found this site, and honored to be a member and hopefully learn from so many helpful & knowledgeable people. I've found what might be my dream car close to home, a 63 Catalina with(supposedly) a 421 HO 3x2. I going to see the car today or tomorrow, but have a question regarding identifying the block. Head number is 9770716, which seems to check as correct for a 63-64 421. Seller says it's not the original engine, but a 421 block, but i'd like to know what the actual displacement and possibly year built before i make an offer. Seller emailed me a few pics showing these numers stamped into the block on right side under the alternator: T 22 P, or possibly T 22 B. I see that 22 B shows in a book i have as being a correct block code, however neither the T or 22 P don't make sense. There is a bit of space between the T and 22 B. Directly underneath that code is a number stamped that reads 354996. It also appears there's another number stamped to the left of the block code but it's not legible in the photo. Since i'm new to this and not sure if i can make it happen, i'll attempt to upload the pic i have of these numbers. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks, Paul

[mwritter]

I don't have the '63 codes in front of me, but I'm pretty sure 22B is going to be a '64 389, manual trans, 235hp. The 9770716 heads are '63-4 389 (GTO) or 421 heads. Check by the distributor for a date code to be sure.

Can't help with the "T". What's the number farther over to the left??

[mwritter]

I take it back - if it's a '63 block, it could be a 421/3spd/4bbl block. That was 22B. Then the 9770716 heads could be the original '63 421HO heads, either 353 or 370hp.

[Engine-Ear]

Paul,

welcome to the board!! Very neat find!!!

While the '0716 head casting is correct, the '63 421HO blocks I have seen have had 11 not 22 as the number code.

I would ask the seller (if you can't do it yourself) to get the numbers off the block by the distributor and as long as he's back there, have him take a pic of the area where the block (again, by the distributor) and the trans bellhousing meet up.

Date code by the distributor for a '63 motor should have something like A163 as a casting date on it (in this case it means Jan 16, 1963).

The image suggestion is to determine whether it is a 389. 389s lack a pyrimid-shaped chunk of metal on the block (located by one of the top motor-to-bell housing bolts) called a 'transfer lug'. As far as I know, 421s all have the transfer lug.

Good luck...and post more pix of the car!

[Engine-Ear]

oops, when I started my reply, mwritter's reply wasn't there yet.

MW: interesting that there is a '63 421 with a 22 code. I just learned something.

[Engine-Ear]

upon further inspection, this looks like it has the 4 bolt water pump, meaning the motor (and car) may be built during the calendar year of 1962 for '63 model year.

[mwritter]

Here's a good resource for you: http://www.pontiacpower.net/castnum01.html Scroll all the way to the bottom for links to engine and head casting numbers. Classical Pontiac has a good searchable database too, but it only goes back to '64 (hence my 1st post).

[tom s]

I had a factory 421 63 car that was the low HP version.I upgradded to a HO by changing heads,cam and tripower.Im sure that has been done to a lot of them.Tom

[63HO3x2Cat421]

Matt, thanks for the replies. In the book i've been referring to, they do show code 22B as correct for both the 64 389 manual, and the 63 421 so you're right on both accounts. As to your question regarding those hidden numbers to the far left of the 22B, i cannot see them in that pic, but hope to get out there tomorrow and try and decipher exactly what's in this Cat. Besides the 9770716 heads it does have a 3x2 setup on what the owner claims to be a 421 but the proof is in the numbers thus my reaching out here for help. Pontiac sure forces us to work to decode these things, so many different combos and possibilities but i suppose it wouldn't be fun if it were too easy. What's encouraging is the car appears from the pics to still wear it's original, yet sun baked and very faded silverleaf green paint. The car was supposedly brought up here from CA in 80 or 81 and sat indoors nearly all this time. Included is a black plate with a SoCal dealer plate frame, and body looks free from any rot. Altough it proves nothing, car also includes the dual snorkel air cleaner with 421 HO decal, so maybe i'll get a lucky break this time and it'll be the real deal. Will keep ya updated thanks again.
Paul

[TININDN]

63HO3x2Cat421:

I believe 22B is correct for a '63 421 Manual Transmission 320 HP (421A). This version of the 421 engine would not have the 9770716 heads (421 HO), but rather the 543797 head castings. The "T" would signify a manual transmission or a heavy duty application, such as police. I've seen it stamped on some blocks, but not on others. It's quite possible the car was originally a 421 HO, but someone put a rod through the side and replaced the block with the lesser horsepower version, but retained the 9770716 heads. Do a VIN check with PHS.

Back in the day, 421 HO guys would often put rods through their blocks in frustration trying to beat the 389 cars, which were actually quicker at the track.

Good luck with your dream car - consider a restamp of the block to 11B if you're looking for correct 421 HO numbers.

Dave B.

[64catdroptop]

This is odd......

My one reference book does indicate that the 22B is as TININDN stated: 421 cid, 320 hp, but the '63 shop manual does not show a 22B code. The codes in the shop manual for a 421 cid are: 08B, 11B, 12B, 13B, 25G, 28G, 47Q, & 50Q. Of those, all except the 47Q and 50Q were Catalina designations. 47Q & 50Q were for the Star Chief and Bonneville only.

-r-

[Jerry H.]

I think this is pretty much the accepted site for Pontiac engine codes. However it does not show a 22B for a 421 in any year that I could see.

http://www.teufert.net/pontiac/engcodes.htm

[63HO3x2Cat421]

First, thanks again for all the thoughtful help and making this newbie feel welcome. As 64 catdroptop states, This is odd. The sheer number of numbers is enough to make one crazy, and from what i've learned so far there's some discrepency depending on what reference is referred to. For instance, the book i've been referring to, High Performance Pontiacs 1955-1974 by John Smith, there's a full table listing engine codes for each year. The book does indeed show 22B as a block code for the 421 320 hp manual in 1963. This same book also shows 22B as a block code for the 1964 389 230 hp manual. At any rate hopefully i can sort the whole mess when i see the car and while there will check for the casting lug and date code by distributor.

[63HO3x2Cat421]

Jerry, check link given below, also given to me earlier buy a member, it does show 22B as a block code for a 63 421. Again, i guess all the sites don't give every code for each year? http://www.pontiacpower.net/engcode01.html

[6T5 Cat]

I enlarged your picture and it is very clear that the letter is a B. My GM parts manual shows 22B as being a 1963 4-bolt main 421, 10:25 compression ratio, 320 horsepower, heavy duty manual transmission and clutch, 4 barrel carb, heavy duty starter, heavy duty fuel pump, heavy duty valve springs, 524009 cam, 1111039 distributor, and AC 45 spark plugs. The 22 code is for 421 standard engine, the B is the code for Borg Warner S.M.T.
I hope this info clears up some things for you. Bob

[63HO3x2Cat421]

Thanks Bob, that's kinda what i thought as none of the reference books i have shows a 22P engine code. Still puzzling is the T stamping that appears just before the block code. Another member replied it might just designate a heavy duty application such as police or even manual transmission. Does your GM parts manual contain anything that signifies the meaning of the T? Thanks again for all the great help, excellent board here! Paul

[6T5 Cat]

Paul, the best I can determine from the manual is that the code 22B is 421, 320 hp, manual trans, and the T designates HD trans. The manual states that those numbers relate directly to eng/trans combination. That combination also had HD motor and transmission mounts installed.
Bob

[John Folluo]

My '63 421HO Catalina has the block stamped 11BT. The build sheet shows "11" under the ENG designation and "T" under the TRANS designation. It is a 4spd car (M20).
63CAT3X2421, I can email you the build sheet and other GM '63 engine number references if you'd like them as a reference. Just let me know.
John

[63HO3x2Cat421]

John, thanks for the reply, and any 63 # references would be appreciated.
Paul

[John Folluo]

Paul, engine info on the way via email. Let me know if I can help with anything else.

John