[TCSGTO]

I recently aquired a very slightly used with properly numbered lifters Crower 292FDP solid cam. Specs are
int. dur @.050 247 lift w/1.65's minus lash.538"
exh. dur @.050 252 lift w/1.65's minus lash.546"
Intake lobe is at 107 and LSA is 112

I'm currently running the old reliable RAIV/Rhoades/1.65 combo in a 9.7CR 462. It has an 800 Holley DP on a RPM intake, #16 (dished pistons to lower CR) street ported heads by Dan Whitmore, 1 5/8" hedders into 3" X crossover & 2.5" Dynomax turbo mufflers. The car weighs near 3900# and I just installed the tight 10" Continental that is suppose to flash to 3200RPM or so. I have 3.42's in the 12 bolt and run Hoosier QT Pro 27x9 DOT tires at the track.

This setup has worked well for me for many years with the best ET being 12.23 @ 109.75, 60' 1.74 with the old 2800 flash stall converter.
I let it autoshift at 5300 to 2nd & 5300 to 3rd.

Would I gain anything by going to the slightly more radical solid? Driveability isn't much of a concern anymore since I don't use the car nearly as much as I used to.

I'm also considering sending the heads out to Kauffmans to have some more port work done. I didn't get flow sheets from Whitmore when he did the heads but judging by the minimal amount of material removed in the ports the flow is probably in the 220-230max cfm range at 28". It basically looks like he raised the intake port roof at the gasket to RAIV size and blended it down to the throat area. The throat & short turn areas are cleaned up but don't appear much larger than stock.

I'm thinking it may be worthwhile to swap cams with the looser converter, especially if I have the heads ported to 240-250cfm. Would this get me into the 11's consistantly? Thanks in advance for any other opinions & advice.

[TCSGTO]

I recently aquired a very slightly used with properly numbered lifters Crower 292FDP solid cam. Specs are
int. dur @.050 247 lift w/1.65's minus lash.538"
exh. dur @.050 252 lift w/1.65's minus lash.546"
Intake lobe is at 107 and LSA is 112

I'm currently running the old reliable RAIV/Rhoades/1.65 combo in a 9.7CR 462. It has an 800 Holley DP on a RPM intake, #16 (dished pistons to lower CR) street ported heads by Dan Whitmore, 1 5/8" hedders into 3" X crossover & 2.5" Dynomax turbo mufflers. The car weighs near 3900# and I just installed the tight 10" Continental that is suppose to flash to 3200RPM or so. I have 3.42's in the 12 bolt and run Hoosier QT Pro 27x9 DOT tires at the track.

This setup has worked well for me for many years with the best ET being 12.23 @ 109.75, 60' 1.74 with the old 2800 flash stall converter.
I let it autoshift at 5300 to 2nd & 5300 to 3rd.

Would I gain anything by going to the slightly more radical solid? Driveability isn't much of a concern anymore since I don't use the car nearly as much as I used to.

I'm also considering sending the heads out to Kauffmans to have some more port work done. I didn't get flow sheets from Whitmore when he did the heads but judging by the minimal amount of material removed in the ports the flow is probably in the 220-230max cfm range at 28". It basically looks like he raised the intake port roof at the gasket to RAIV size and blended it down to the throat area. The throat & short turn areas are cleaned up but don't appear much larger than stock.

I'm thinking it may be worthwhile to swap cams with the looser converter, especially if I have the heads ported to 240-250cfm. Would this get me into the 11's consistantly? Thanks in advance for any other opinions & advice.

[Fox]

That cam is a lot wilder than that RAIV cam you have in it now. Solid cams are problematic but usually have a better torque curve than hydraulic cams, but that cam is just gigantic compared to the cam you have now. You will definitely have to port your heads to make use of the increased duration. You will end up shifting at a much higher RPM so I hope your bottom end is up to the task. I would also get a set of 1.75" headers rather than the 1.625" you are using now. You might actually end up doing better using a Torker II manifold rather than a RPM since you have that higher stall. All this will DEFINITELY get you into the 11s consistantly.

[TCSGTO]

I agree the Crower will be a little harder to live with in stop & go driving but it really isn't that much "bigger" than the IV. Remember, you have to take about 8 degrees off the .050 duration of a solid cam to compare it to a hydraulic due to the valve lashs' effect. The valves don't move untill the slack is out of the system.

I ran a Comp Cams solid for a short time with 236 degrees @ .050 and a 110 LCA with the intake @ 109 and it idled 18"Hg in drive with massive off idle/low end torque. It was down a little on MPH and ET but the 60' was slightly better than the RAIV, when I could hook it up.

[burch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TCSGTO:
I recently aquired a very slightly used with properly numbered lifters Crower 292FDP solid cam. Specs are
int. dur @.050 247 lift w/1.65's minus lash.538"
exh. dur @.050 252 lift w/1.65's minus lash.546"
Intake lobe is at 107 and LSA is 112<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I recently put that cam in my 400. I like it.

I've gone 12.40@108 in my 3700lb '69 Firebird w/1.650ish 60' with it.

I shift at 6500, but it's still making power. The powerband seems to really come alive at about 5000 RPM.

You have ~60ci over me, and heads that flow about the same as mine. I'd guess that it would really start making power about 4000-4500 in your motor. Should work good with the gears/converter you've got.

My previous cam was a Lunati BM-II (230/230@0.50, hydraulic). Repairing the damaged exhaust valve seats in my heads, picking up about 15cfm of airflow, and switching to this cam got me from 13.teens at 101 to the 12.40 at 108.

The idle quality in my 400 is fair. The difference between a good idle and stalling at stoplights is about 1/8th of a turn on the mixture screws, but once I got it dialed in, it's perfectly drivable, and idles in gear at 800 RPM. I would imagine in a 462 it'll be plenty streetable.

[ponchopete]

If you have the heads worked a little more, that solid cam is going to be like night and day in your engine. As good as the RAIV is, that solid will be that much better, especially in the higher mid-range and top-end. As fas as solid cams being problematic, I respectfully disagree. I ran a custom grind solid from Crower in my Pontiac that was very similar (248/256, .507"/.527" w/1.5's, 110 l.s.) for one year with regular street driving, and didn't have to adjust the valves one single time -- not even after break-in. I periodically checked them, but I never once had to re-lash them. With good quality valvetrain parts and correct rocker arm geometry, maintenance is all but eliminated with the moderately aggressive, more street oriented cams. Fox has a point that a move to 1.75" primary tube headers is a good idea, and an upgrade to 3" exhaust would be something worth considering also. I think the RPM manifold would be more than adequate with this combination. If you elect to make the changes, it may be worth your time to experiment with some carb spacers. Generally, the larger c.i. engines with fairly aggressive cams like a bit more plenum volume than what the RPM has to offer, and a 1" open spacer can potentially be worth some power.

"My car would be fast if it had an engine, transmission, and rear axle in it."

[Engo]

I have to disagree with the statement that solid cams are problematic. Last year I went from a RAIV cam in my 455 to a big solid cam (264/272, lsa112). I had to reset lash once on a couple of valves after break in. Checked lash twice thereafter but did not have to reset lash on any valve. Performancewise, the solid cam was a major improvement over the RAIV.

Also, that cam of yours are not at all so big compared to a RAIV cam. The rated duration of 247 have to be adjusted for lash if you wanna compare it to the RAIV. Rule of thumb is to subtract 10 degrees making it a 237 degree compared to the 230 degrees of a RAIV. Not a world of difference in my book, especially not on a 455.

Also, look at and compare the duration numbers at .200 lift. They will tell even more what kind of a cam you will have. With heads in the 250 cfm region you have a combo that is capable of mid elevens and maybe 120 mph in 1/4 mile.

Street ´69 Firebird. 3800 lbs with driver. 455 with D-ports. 275x50 drag radials. Stock suspension. 11.24s@124.2mph (motor only)10.42s@130.3mph (+150hpNOS)

[This message was edited by Engo on January 08, 2003 at 03:38 AM.]

[TCSGTO]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'm going to go for the cam swap. If I loose a little low end I won't mind. It should make the car more consistent anyway since traction is a sometimes thing currently. If the starting line isn't prepped properly I get just enough tire slip to screw up my dial in.

The bigger hedders would definetly help some but that wouldn't leave any $$$ left for head work. Right now it's got to be one or the other. The head pipes are 3" now but the outlet of the x-pipe is to 2.5". I'll probably put a set of Ultra Flow straight through mufflers on instead of the Super Turbos to free it up a bit.

Should make for a fun summer...if it ever gets here. Cabin fever is setting in bigtime!

[Fox]

Well you know I completely forgot about the lash when using solid cams since it's been so long since I've used one. Sorry about that. They were kind of loud for my taste. Also it seems like I kept having to set the lash about once every two months or so (which is what I ment by problematic). What sort of components are you guys using to reduce the "under the hood" time?

[tempest455]

The cam will probably idle about the same considering it has a 112LS and after lash, it's really similar duration. You may pick up a little torque going to the solid. I like them because you CAN play with lash and effect duration/RPM somewhat.

I ran a 263/271 and even with a 108LS, I thought it was totally streetable for a manual brake car.

Why not use it! Working on them is half the fun. However, if you don't drive it much, lashing 1X/year is sufficient.

tempest455

[sscherin]

I'm running almost the same combo with a UD 288/296 Solid
@ .050 is 255/263 110 lobe sep
Lift is .540/.556

Before that I had a HC02A hydro cam..

Your car should run great with it!
We have the same converter too..
Don't worry about low end.. It'll be there.
I've managed a 1.691 60' so far with a Vac 2nd carb.. We'll see if the DP carb helps any this summer.
Keep the idle above 900 and the Power brakes will still work too.

Valvetrain noise is hardly noticable.
Not over my exhaust anyway.
Once you get the hang of setting the lash it's quick and easy.. You don't have to set it all that often anyway unless you drive the hell out of it.

GURU: One who knows more jargon than you

Scott Schering
70 Firebird 455 12.34 @ 108.2
Http://www.pontiacs.org

[ponchopete]

Fox,
On my solid cam equipped engine, my valvetrain was actually very simple and fairly low budget. I used the Comp Cams Magnum roller tip rocker arms, Mr. Gasket polylocks, ARP rocker arm studs, and Speed-Pro pushrods. I made sure to be very careful on checking rocker geometry, and it just happened to turn out that the stock length Speed-Pro pushrods were right on the money for my particular application.

"My car would be fast if it had an engine, transmission, and rear axle in it."

[RPM]

I had that same cam with 1.6 Crower roller rockers in my 9.6:1 cr 428. Ran great. Idled at 1100 rpm with 11-12" vacuum. Verly little valve train noise and it held its adjustment forever.

[Fox]

Ponchopete,

I do remember using compcams roller rockers and one piece pushrods with ARP studs and I still had to adjust these things fairly often. Course I was driving the T/A alot in those days. Sure did have plenty of low RPM torque but the noise was irritating. Maybe I just didn't hold my mouth right (lol). I changed it over to a hydraulic cam (non roller) and I swear the bottom end didn't hardly change at all. A little reduction in the mid RPM perhaps. Those 455 engines are silly! I'm sure the track time would have suffered though but it was quieter and no more adjusting. I really like the idea of using a hydraulic roller on my next engine. I'm looking at my options now with some of the more recomended builders.

[ponchopete]

Fox,
I drove mine at least twice week back and forth to work, and almost every weekend. I also shifted it 7,500 RPM while beating on it, and never had a problem. The 3" with Bullets coming right off of the headers seemed to drown out the valvetrain noise.

"My car would be fast if it had an engine, transmission, and rear axle in it."