[A1Judge]

Hi guys, Happy New Year.

I picked up a rear that has the correct 3.55's for my Judge yesterday. So here is what I have:

* Rear housing, cleaned, POR'd and ready to go.

* Posi unit, cleaned, checked and ready to go but still has old bearings on it.

* 3.55 Ring and Pinion from a 70 Lemans Sport, Stamped 39-11 dated 12 - 69, (which is perfect as my car was built in January of 70), not that that matters, I just thought it was kinda cool that the dates matched!

All parts solvent cleaned... etc, etc

OK, OK, here is the question... How hard is it to set one of these up by yourself. I will purchase all new bearings, shims, gaskets, crush sleve, etc. in a packaged kit. Can this be done at home? If not, how much can I expect to pay if I drop off all the stuff to a shop?

Thanks Much

Don

[A1Judge]

Hi guys, Happy New Year.

I picked up a rear that has the correct 3.55's for my Judge yesterday. So here is what I have:

* Rear housing, cleaned, POR'd and ready to go.

* Posi unit, cleaned, checked and ready to go but still has old bearings on it.

* 3.55 Ring and Pinion from a 70 Lemans Sport, Stamped 39-11 dated 12 - 69, (which is perfect as my car was built in January of 70), not that that matters, I just thought it was kinda cool that the dates matched!

All parts solvent cleaned... etc, etc

OK, OK, here is the question... How hard is it to set one of these up by yourself. I will purchase all new bearings, shims, gaskets, crush sleve, etc. in a packaged kit. Can this be done at home? If not, how much can I expect to pay if I drop off all the stuff to a shop?

Thanks Much

Don

[Ed Neasham]

Don, It's not too hard. I got the video from Richmond gears (I think it was $29.00 or so). It covers it pretty well. If the setup you have now is working OK then the shim sizes should be the same or at least very close to get you into the ballpark from the gitgo. You can also get the installation kit from Richmond and it will have everything you need in it, including the white lead. You will need a dial indicator and base, however, to measure backlash.

I set mine up at a tech day for out local Pontiac Club and it seems to be fine.

Ed

PS When I say get the stuff from Richmond, go through Summit or Jegs, the price is better than direct.

[A1Judge]

Thanks Ed.

I will look for the video online right now and order it.

It didn't seem like rocket science, but I will need a dial indicator too. I think Harbor freight carries those.

In the long run it may be cheaper than a job shop.

How hard was it to press the pinion bearing race into the case? My carrier bearings and races look very clean so I plan on re-using those.

Don

['ol Pinion head]

A problem exists in using a pinion depth checker to set GM original 8.2 gear sets as the original vendor did not do a very good job machining the head of the pinion perpendicular to the to the fore-aft axis of the pinion.

What does this mean...a FACTORY 8.2 pinion may exhibit a pinion depth on one side which differs from the other side by as much as .018. At least thats the worst, I've seen.

In reusing factory 8.2 gears, it is best to take a P/D reading at several different point around the head of the pinion. Mark the pinion with a paint pen at these different points, while it is still in the original housing. Make a little drawing of the pinion to note the different #'s. Then take several different P/D readings. Transfer the pinion to intended housing. Through the use of different pinion shims & a honed big pinion bearing (set-up bearing) one can speed up the multiple installation pinion of the pinion & different pinion shims until the original Pinion Depth is established. Check the exact same points at the same drag.

Next set backlash & chase patterns. Patterns will not register right w/o applying considerable drag to the pinion. I have a helper turn an axle as I clamp the pinion as hard as I can with leather welding gloves. On a used 8.2 Pontiac Safe-T-Track carrier, if the axles turns & the carrier slips while this drag is being applyed, the carrier is showing considerable wear of the cones & a breakway test should be performed w/ a beam type torque wrench.

All of the above tranferring Pinion Depths goes out the window, if the original pinion was loose in the original R/E. Many times someone has been into a rearend to change a pinion seal or pinion bearings, & did not go through the process of installing a new crushsleeve. They will skip the new crushsleeve as GM has disco'ed it & regular parts stores don't show a listing. Often the pinion will be loose as a result. If such is the case, it is easiest to set the used gears up by pattern. For a crushsleeve use a GM 7.5-7.625 rearend crushsleeve.

I only mention the original gear setup as many times a restorer may have to go back with used 3.23, 3.36, or 4.33 gears when their originals are missing or worn out. None of these are available aftermarket, so there is no option.

[KS circutguy]

Hey pin head,opps,oh well,anyway in rear end school back in 84' the teacher told us ALWAYS go by the pattern check with gear marking compound......This will tell ya where you are at for true!!!!! KS out.

[A1Judge]

Thanks Guys

As a matter of fact, me, being in a hurry already removed the pinion and ring from the old housing, so I have no measurements to go by...

I ordered the Richmond video along with the installation kit. If it looks too hard, I'll have to find a shop that can do it, but what the hey, I'll give it my best shot.

Don

[Ed Neasham]

Don, what I did on mine was to set it up, to the best of my ability, per the video and then take it to a shop that had a good rep for doing rear ends and asked them to check it for me. They did and it was OK. Cost me about $50.00 to have them look at it, but it was worth it to me for the piece of mind.

Ed

[A1Judge]

Thanks to everyone for the tips. I am going to give it a shot, then take it in like Ed did to have it checked.

Parts should be here tomorrow, I will try to get to it this weekend before I go to California on business.

Don

[Doug]

DC, ditto to what KC said about about tooth pattern. Others gave good advice too. Something you may want to consider ( maybe somebody else can comment on it) is that
(as I have heard and read) when you are installing used gears, try to get the tooth contact pattern on the new setup to look like it did under the old setup. Since you already have it apart, the "old" pattern may not be easily determined. I suppose that if the old pattern is not detectable, you would just set it up as a "standard" pattern. Maybe the instructions will address this. My thoughts are that if you can get the tools (dial indicator, etc.) and follow the instructions you can do it yourself and not have to worry about it. Several years ago I installed a new posi and new set of 3.90 gears into a 65 GTO using a borrowed magnetic base dial indicator and some of my own basic type tools and by using a Chilton Auto Manual for instructions.( A tube of my wife's bright red lipstick worked fine for checking the tooth pattern.) I flogged that GTO on the street and strip over a period of years and never had any problems out of it. Take your time and you'll do okay.

[A1Judge]

Well I just viewed the video from Richmond, and I have their installation kit. The only difference I can see is that the bolts in the new kit are for a pre-70 Rear. My original bolts are 7/17 LH thread, they sent me 3/8th in the kit.

The bearings, shims, crush sleve, etc. are exact matches.

I am going to buy a bearing remover and some other tools I have in mind to assist in getting the bearings off and on the pinion and carrier.

I am also going to take pictures and put them up on my web site documenting the whole process. Who knows, if I am successful, maybe my procedure can help someone in the future.

Stay tuned...

Thanks for all the replies!

Don

[A1Judge]

Whew!

After 2 hours and a bit of creativity, I got the old pinion bearing off and the new one pressed on. Also got the rear pinion bearing race pressed into the case.

Still plugging away on it...

[A1Judge]

Finished

Well guys, I finished the rear end gear set-up today. Took awhile, but I think I have it right.

The gear marking pattern is a little towards the Toe side, but as I understand, under load, it moves toward the heel. I kept removing shims until I got what I thought was right. Then I put in the real new bearing, (I had a tool bearing that I honed so I could install and remove it easilly during set up), and crush sleve and it change a little towards the toe side.

I have pictures.. Can I E-mail someone a picture to check for me. They are High-Res pics, ~1.3 meg, but I would appreciate a double check.

Backlash seems to be in the .006-.008 range. Best I can tell with my crude set-up, but everything feels right. With no lube and dry bearings you can feel a "little' tap and very little travel when you rotate back and forth. Dial indicator registers around .006 give or take.

Thanks

Don

[This message has been edited by DC (edited 01-06-2001).]