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RA462 · 12-11-2002, 11:08 AM

I'm building an 83 Pro-street Grand Prix and I want to step up to a roller cam. OK here goes. 462, h-beam rods, TRW forged pistons, currently have #48 heads, opened to RA IV gasket, lots of bowl work, ect., Victor, 850 Holley, Mallory Comp 9000, MSD 6AL, TH-400, 10” 3700 stall, 4.56 gears, spool, 15 X 33 slicks. I used this engine in my 65 GTO with an Ultradyne solid cam, 263/271 dur. @.050, .611 lift with 1.65 roller rockers, 106 centerline. Best time was 11.78 @116. I want 10’s out of the Grand Prix. Glass hood, trunk, doors, lexan, 10 Pt. Cage, not sure what the car weight is. Looking into Edelbrock heads now. I may just buy a set and clean-up the ports myself. Can anyone recommend a good roller cam for such a set up? I was looking at a Crower roller cam with these specs. 312/319 adv. dur., 277/283 @ .050, .421/.433 lobe lift, .632/.650 w/1.5 rockers. Any suggestions? Will this engine require a lifter bore brace and stud girdle? Any help is well appreciated.

Todd

RA462 · 12-11-2002, 11:08 AM

I'm building an 83 Pro-street Grand Prix and I want to step up to a roller cam. OK here goes. 462, h-beam rods, TRW forged pistons, currently have #48 heads, opened to RA IV gasket, lots of bowl work, ect., Victor, 850 Holley, Mallory Comp 9000, MSD 6AL, TH-400, 10” 3700 stall, 4.56 gears, spool, 15 X 33 slicks. I used this engine in my 65 GTO with an Ultradyne solid cam, 263/271 dur. @.050, .611 lift with 1.65 roller rockers, 106 centerline. Best time was 11.78 @116. I want 10’s out of the Grand Prix. Glass hood, trunk, doors, lexan, 10 Pt. Cage, not sure what the car weight is. Looking into Edelbrock heads now. I may just buy a set and clean-up the ports myself. Can anyone recommend a good roller cam for such a set up? I was looking at a Crower roller cam with these specs. 312/319 adv. dur., 277/283 @ .050, .421/.433 lobe lift, .632/.650 w/1.5 rockers. Any suggestions? Will this engine require a lifter bore brace and stud girdle? Any help is well appreciated.

Todd

Steve C. · 12-11-2002, 12:09 PM

Todd, My opinion is YES on both the lifter bore brace and the stud girdle.
It has been touted that if your cam has duration numbers approaching 200 at 0.200" lift then you will need the brace.
If it helps, my current combo has a Ultradyne 279/287 @.050 solid roller installed and peak power on the engine dyno is around 6900 rpm.
Lobe lift is .4267" and it has a 110 lobe separation.
Heads are ported Edelbrock with 329 cfm @ .700" lift (28") and the intake runner volume is about 234cc. Intake manifold is a Victor and that was with a 900 cfm carb. Motor is 450 ci.

'Damn right it's a street car'

Steve C. · 12-11-2002, 02:00 PM

The following was in the new issue of HPP/ Q&A section...
Question was if a stud girdle is needed.
cam, 274/280 @.050 with .693" lift. 225 seat & 630 open spring pressure.
Answer from From Jeff Kauffman:
For what information you have given me, I'd go with a stud girdle. When we build engines that are going to have .650 lift or more and have a solid roller cam, we use them. There are a couple of resons to use stud girdles. One, you gain stability in the upper rpm range on the rocker stud itself and your valve timing events will hold better on the camshaft. And two, with a dtud girdle you won't need to adjust lash as often because the girdle bar retains the adjusting nuts better, keeping them from backing off. The only thing that works better than a stud girdle is a rocker shaft setup, which is a lot more expensive.

'Damn right it's a street car'

Jack Ferris · 12-11-2002, 06:43 PM

Depending on the weight of your Prix and the elevation you race at you could probably hit the 10's with what you have if you did some head work.Either have someone finish the 48's or buy some Eheads. If your car is around 3200-3600 #'s and your close to sea level you would need approx. 530-550 hp to hit the 10's. Should be a slam dunk with the cam you have and some good head work. I ran an UD roller for several years with great results. Its a 271-278 .626 104 LSA. It made killer torque in a 469 with basicly out of the box Edelbrocks. It would do the same with the 48's

Wang whats with all the pictures it a parking lot.....

RA462 · 12-12-2002, 02:14 PM

Thank’s for the advice, girdle and brace it is. Just mainly trying to figure out how large of cam I can get away with using my pistons. TRW’s don’t have the big valve relief’s like the expensive pistons do. What I was thinking was to use 1.5 rockers now and use 1.65 latter. Anyone else have suggestions on a cam? Would the Crower work OK with my converter?

Todd

Ken MacNicol · 12-12-2002, 09:11 PM

Your car should be a little under 3,000#. My 81 has a glass hood and trunk lid and weighs 2,960#.

WARPed · 12-13-2002, 09:25 AM

In my heavy 69 GP I went 10.80’s @123mph with a 400/E heads, UD 262/270 solid roller. When I put the 467 in with E heads, UD 271/278 solid roller I got a best of 9.90’s @133mph. Both combos were through the mufflers and using an air cleaner, and on the motor of course. Also no brace was needed though there was one in the 467 on the chance I would want more cam later on.

with out questions there can be no answers

1969 Grand Prix
9.947@133.53(1.358)
6.246@107.91(1.342)
WARPed Tepee Forums
alex@pontiacgroup.com

WARPed · 12-13-2002, 09:41 AM

Oh yea, I also run a stud girdle. It will end virtually all valve adjustments after you set them.

with out questions there can be no answers

1969 Grand Prix
9.947@133.53(1.358)
6.246@107.91(1.342)
WARPed Tepee Forums
alex@pontiacgroup.com

UDHarold · 12-13-2002, 07:55 PM

To all you UD users, THANKS!!

Later on in the spring of 2003, I'll have some new longer-duration .626"s and also some bigger duration .685"s, which are high-lift versions of the .640" family.
I have a 312/321, 280/288 @ .050, .685"/.682" with 1.5s that runs 9.90s in a 3550 lb 385 cid Olds. We are going to expand that family.
If you have any requests or thoughts for new Pontiac rollers or solids, please let me know...

UDHarold

Jack Ferris · 12-13-2002, 09:55 PM

UDHarold,
I will be contacting you on my new 4.25x4.25 motor. I was very pleased how the 271-278 .626 ran in my 469.

Wang whats with all the pictures it a parking lot.....

Skip Fix · 12-14-2002, 07:24 AM

My 3750 TA is running what converts to 10.80s with a UD solid roller 258/264@0.050 .556 lift with 1.5s. E heads though. It pulls as much vacuum as my old big hydraulic!I'm sold on solid rollers now, if only the lifters would go for alot of miles.And how do the hydraulic roller lifters go for 100,000 mmiles+ but the solids don't even on "street rollers"?? UD Harold??

To get a little more V-P clearance with the TRWs(about 0.020-0.030) blend the angle of the valve relief all the way out on the piston top. The angle there between the "eyebrows" is where they hit.

Tom Vaught · 12-14-2002, 07:57 AM

Skip,

My friend Mike McCarty, (featured in PE this month
as the Saturday Race winner at the Ames Tri-power
Nats) has been running on the street his 265/275
solid roller for over three years with a lot of miles and no issues once he got rid of the Butler/ comp roller lifters and put Crowers in the motor. Tom V.

Steve C. · 12-14-2002, 08:49 AM

Ditto on the Crower solid roller lifters, they seem to be the hot ticket these days. Lots of conversation about them.
I ran a set in two motor combinations for years, though I'll admit they saw limited street use.
I recently bought another set for a pump gas motor project in the works. On this piticular set I got them with the Hi-pressure pin oiler option. With this option they place a precision 0.024" hole directly from the oil band to the needle bearings. Delivers more oil to critical, high load areas for greatly improved cycle life.

'Damn right it's a street car'

tempest455 · 12-14-2002, 10:12 AM

UD Harold:

I run the NR 98/310 R6 in my 455. It's .652/.640 (.4347/.4267 lobe), 268/279 with a 106 LS. The cam card said to set the lash at .014/.026 hot. I normally set my solid cam .006 tighter, cold, using aluminum heads. I thought .008 on the intake would be too tight so I set it at .014/.020 cold.

Any thoughts on this???

Thanks,

Eric.

tempest455

UDHarold · 12-14-2002, 11:00 AM

Eric,

There's no problem. When the engine is hot, the lash will be about .018". This is acceptable, even .022" is OK, but as loose as I like to run them. Any looser than .022", and they become quite noisy.....
With the lash at .018" hot, you'll just have a little more bottom-end...

UDHarold

fasteddy · 12-14-2002, 11:12 AM

UD Harold, I run the same cam as Jack Feris describes in this thread. (.626/.626) My question is: my engine man said .026 cold-both I and E. Would that be your recommendation as well. I run old iron heads. Thanks

fasteddy

Jack Ferris · 12-14-2002, 12:27 PM

fasteddy-I ran mine at .024 and .026. That cam is a torquey ass cam isnt it. I ran 10.43 @ 127 with a 10 year old 469 shifting at 5800 rpm and that was at 5600 ft. Oh ya, there's 2 r's in my last name :-)

Wang whats with all the pictures it a parking lot.....

UDHarold · 12-14-2002, 09:20 PM

FastEddy,

The correct number is .022" COLD or .026" HOT. However, the adjustment range is from .018" HOT to .030" HOT, so you are still within range. If you want more top-end, don't be afraid to tighten them down.....

UDHarold

And thanks to all you users for all the kind words.....

fasteddy · 12-16-2002, 12:14 PM

Thanks for the info Harold and Jack FeRRis. I have been very happy with that cam. I have 1 more question without starting another topic: The 462 has fantastic top end pull but my 60 foots are similar to previous seasons yet I picked up 4 tenths. Would advancing the cam more help with low end? My car weighs 3650 (RW) and I have a 3800 stall 9 inch converter and 4.11 rear ratio. The cam is in at a 103 IC. Thanks, Steve.

fasteddy

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