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Steve Barcak · 01-02-2005, 05:39 PM

Hey Rob,
There seems to be plenty of holes in your list. It seems you have forgot many of the guys who ran Pontiac power in the past except for Arnie Beswick.
Since you are doing an "all time" thing as opposed to something current. Here are many that you have left out.
* How about that Vega flop that was Pontiac powered by Raymond Walker? It was featured in Super Stock in the mid to late 70s. The article claimed it to be a 200 mph car. I don't remember Ets for it.
* What about Jerry Stienbrick? Didn't he run 8's (maybe 7s?) in the 80s on that parts cleaner stuff (gas)?
* What about Don and Roy Gay? They were running in the 7s with 421 power by 1967 (Firebird flopper OCIR manufactures meet) and they ran Pontiac power through 1968 at least and I think some in '69 before switching over to a 426. I am sure they had 2 or 3 cars that would make this list including the '66 GTO, '67 Bird and '69 GTO.
* What about Eddie Hills 202 pass at Hobbs, Nm on May 6, 1962 with his Pontiac twin (OK I see you mentioned it but, apparantely you are unsure)? Not to mention that fact he later ran single engine Pontiacs later on Nitro and into about '65. He had to run well into the 7s by that time. He could have had 1-3 cars that should be on your list.
* What about that Chapman Automotive V powered injected nitro burning '69 Judge flopper? I think it ran very low 8s.
* What about Beswicks '69 Super Judge flopper? I am sure in ran mid to low sevens. Arnie has to have at least 2 additional cars that are not on yor list ('69 Super Judge and '68 GTO both were floppers).
*Another possibility is the Royal sponsored injected V powered niitro burning Trans Am flopper (unsure of times).
* How about Jess Tyree? He ran blown 421 nitro floppers into 1968. He has to have some 7 second time slips.
That is 6-10 or so more that have been over looked. Many on your "all time list" will get bumped way down after you include everybody. I am curious as to why you have excluded these cars? If anyone thinks they will bethe top 10 or 15 on carbs and gas n/a forget it now and forever.
Am I the only one who knows of these Pontiacs?
there has to be more too.
Also, I have documention that Arnie ran the 6.94. He told me he did and i got it in writing with the picture of the car. It is his signature. If he didn't do it, he is a liar. who is to question? on the other hand, it does seems a bit fast for the day but, it is possible he could have done that and I accept him at his word.
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

Scott Misus · 01-02-2005, 06:03 PM

Steve:

Easy there, Killer.

Rob most likely isn't as deeply aware and as versed in the nuances of Pontiac racing history as you are.

He's a bit younger than you are, so possibly, he hasn't performed the depth of research that you have.

Not to pour salt into the wounds, but he also omitted the several accomplishments of the Herslow and Morlock Super Stock team of the 1970s.

I seem to recall them running a Tempest 4 cylinder econo dragster deep into the 8s.

Tom Vaught · 01-02-2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:

""On the box for the 71 BOSS BIRD FUNNY CAR diecast -RAM AIR V heads-it stated ARNIE dipped into the 6.80's Cool."

Is that really what the box says? The one that Arnie is selling on his website?

6.80s?

Tom V.

Where did that number come from Steve?

Steve Barcak · 01-02-2005, 07:40 PM

Tom V,
Is your question for "Steve" referring to me? If so, I know nothing of 6.80s from the Boss Bird. It is possible it went 6.80s with a Ramchargers 426. Maybe that is the reference to what the box says. Does this box say it went 6.80s with Pontiac power?
As I said in my earlier post. My info is not second hand or heresay. I got it direct from Arnie and I asked him if he would put that in writing as to his quickest/fastest Pontiac pass ever. He said sure and signed, dated it and put his all time best ET and MPH on the picture. It is in writing. Again, if Arnie is of his word, that is it. I do not question him. It does seems a bit quick but, it could have happened.
Just like E Hills disputed 202mph pass in '62. Garlits was NHRAs first Official 200 mph pass in '64. but, that was under NHRA rules at the time. As we know there was pleny of drag racing outside of NHRA in the 60s. It is very possible and believable that Eddie Hill took that gas blown twin Pontiac to 202 in May of that year. Remember, the biggest problem with ETs and MPH back then was TRACTION. Eddie ran dual slicks, this gave him better traction than anyone at the time. With conditons ( weather, track condition, engine set up, etc) just right and using the clutch just right, I bet he did do it. Getting it a second time to back it up is another thing but, Rob here is not asking for anyone here for a second backup pass as do the Official sanctioning bodies. If so, the list on this thread here would look vastly different.
On another note Chris "The Greek" Karamsines took his blown fuel digger over 200 ( 204) in 1960. This further shows 200 MPH times were very possible for E Hill in '62.
The signed, documented photo of the Boss Bird with the 6.94 is available to view or copy (as many have) on my website on my "Pontiac History" page.
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

Steve Barcak · 01-02-2005, 07:58 PM

Here is another one for you Rob.
This little sweetheart (about a 90 inch wheelbase (!) ) with Bill Alexander driving went as quick as 8.02 in '62. It was destroyed in Spring '63. Old man Taylor can back this up as he told me he SAW it in person at San Fernando raceway.
The car was re-created in 2002 and is beautiful. Again, more pics and info on my website "Pontiac History" page.
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

Steve Barcak · 01-02-2005, 08:03 PM

The recreated "Shudder Bug" Pontiac Top Fueler.
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

Steve Barcak · 01-02-2005, 08:06 PM

One more becaue it is so pretty, it gives me a sti$$y. Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

Tom Vaught · 01-02-2005, 08:27 PM

Steve B,

Did you read my previous quote.

Who ever posted the orifinal info on the Boss Bird model says the car has Ram Air V heads and ran 6.80s. (Turns out it was BANDITONE on page 2 of this topic, see for yourself).

That is what the box says supposedly. I have not seen the box yet.

Quote:

" Is your question for "Steve" referring to me? If so, I know nothing of 6.80s from the Boss Bird. It is possible it went 6.80s with a Ramchargers 426. Maybe that is the reference to what the box says. Does this box say it went 6.80s with Pontiac power?

Yes according the the above mentioned post (with Ram Air V heads).

As I said in my earlier post. My info is not second hand or heresay. I got it direct from Arnie and I asked him if he would put that in writing as to his quickest/fastest Pontiac pass ever. He said sure and signed, dated it and put his all time best ET and MPH on the picture. It is in writing. Again, if Arnie is of his word, that is it. I do not question him. It does seems a bit quick but, it could have happened.

I have seen your post and the picture signed by Arnie where he wrote that he
went a 6.94 at 215 or so.

The LATEST 6.80s deal with V heads is what I am asking about that is being sold on his web site and other web sites.

Tom V.

Steve Barcak · 01-02-2005, 08:48 PM

OK, I understand. I haven't seen the box either.
The wording on the box could be true but, misleading. The car could have run 6.80s and it did have a Ram Air V in it too but, maybe the 6.80 times were not run when the Pontiac was in the car.
But, according to Arnies own words (and signature) the best he went EVER with Pontiac power ( blown V with 400 thm) was 6.94
I chased that question around for years. I asked everybody. I even wrote into magazines to inquire. Who had the fastest/quickest Pontiac ever down the drag strip?
Up until 2003 it was Arnie with that 6.94. after that it is Rodney Butler with his 6.91.
When I asked Arnie this question and got his signature with that 6.94 he was not preoccupied or busy. We were having a one on one talk about who was the fastest Pontiac ever on the strip and what that time and mph was. This was his word. There is no chance he went faster unless his integrity is at question. Everyone will always remember their fastest, quickest pass.
And let's remember the all time fastest, baddest, nastiest Pontiac ever. It is doubtful that it will ever be beat. This killer speed was acheived in 1960 on official clocks at 406MPH, it was Mickey Thompsons Pontiac powered Challenger. This 45 year old milestone has never been beaten by ANY chebby, not by ANY Ford. Only 1 iron Chrysler ever has touched the numbers that this nasty Pontiac ran ( Summers bros Golden Rod), the few that have gone faster were KB type Top Fuel aftermarket HEMIs.
No "fastest" Pontiac list is complete without the Challenger on it.
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

Rob · 01-02-2005, 10:58 PM

Steve,

Yea the older stuff is hard to be sure and I try to get the best proof whenever it surfaces.

Raymond Walker will try and dig up info on him
Jerry Stienbrick I have him at 8.31
Don & Ron Gay will try and find some more info
Eddie Hill should've had enough motor to be in the sevens but with his 8.97@185 and Gartlits on the same page 9.36@189 its likely the tires kept them out of the sevens that year.
Arine has AA/FC record in '71 of 6.91 from Scott Misus's posted list; same thing on not much info past that.
While they're hasn't been a door car to break Advanced ET on motor, That should be broken this year or '06

Still dig up any info you can find and post it. We've definitely become better organized in recording history.

-Rob

PONTIAC DUDE · 01-03-2005, 08:14 AM

Rob.......... how about just a list of Pontiac power In 2004.

Forget the 'that was then' deal.

Let's get current.

If ya can, list for 2003 only .......... then

I'm curious on who did what in 2004.

Brian Baker · 01-03-2005, 08:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Steve Barcak:
Hey Rob,
There seems to be plenty of holes in your list. It seems you have forgot many of the guys who ran Pontiac power in the past except for Arnie Beswick.
Since you are doing an "all time" thing as opposed to something current. Here are many that you have left out.
* How about that Vega flop that was Pontiac powered by Raymond Walker? It was featured in Super Stock in the mid to late 70s. The article claimed it to be a 200 mph car. I don't remember Ets for it.
* What about Jerry Stienbrick? Didn't he run 8's (maybe 7s?) in the 80s on that parts cleaner stuff (gas)?
* What about Don and Roy Gay? They were running in the 7s with 421 power by 1967 (Firebird flopper OCIR manufactures meet) and they ran Pontiac power through 1968 at least and I think some in '69 before switching over to a 426. I am sure they had 2 or 3 cars that would make this list including the '66 GTO, '67 Bird and '69 GTO.
* What about Eddie Hills 202 pass at Hobbs, Nm on May 6, 1962 with his Pontiac twin (OK I see you mentioned it but, apparantely you are unsure)? Not to mention that fact he later ran single engine Pontiacs later on Nitro and into about '65. He had to run well into the 7s by that time. He could have had 1-3 cars that should be on your list.
* What about that Chapman Automotive V powered injected nitro burning '69 Judge flopper? I think it ran very low 8s.
* What about Beswicks '69 Super Judge flopper? I am sure in ran mid to low sevens. Arnie has to have at least 2 additional cars that are not on yor list ('69 Super Judge and '68 GTO both were floppers).
*Another possibility is the Royal sponsored injected V powered niitro burning Trans Am flopper (unsure of times).
* How about Jess Tyree? He ran blown 421 nitro floppers into 1968. He has to have some 7 second time slips.
That is 6-10 or so more that have been over looked. Many on your "all time list" will get bumped way down after you include everybody. I am curious as to why you have excluded these cars? If anyone thinks they will bethe top 10 or 15 on carbs and gas n/a forget it now and forever.
Am I the only one who knows of these Pontiacs?
there has to be more too.
Also, I have documention that Arnie ran the 6.94. He told me he did and i got it in writing with the picture of the car. It is his signature. If he didn't do it, he is a liar. who is to question? on the other hand, it does seems a bit fast for the day but, it is possible he could have done that and I accept him at his word.
Steve http://www.pontiacheaven.org <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve's right, alot got left off, probably because Arnie is still in the forefront of many minds while the others aren't.

Wow! I thought I was the only Pontiac person on this board that knew about Raymond Walker and his Pontiac powered "Sunshine" Vega funny car from the mid-70's.

In the last year I personally tried to get in touch with Raymond Walker. I spoke with one of his former crew members, Robert Flitsch, and he said he hadn't seen or heard from him in at least 20 years. Raymond was an Army drill instructor stationed out of Fort Knox and was one of the many "match racers" from that era, never running for a living like most others were. The car was mostly set up as a BB/FC (blown alcohol), but occasionaly they tipped the can for certain match races. I tried to get more info from him as to what hardware he ran, and he wasn't sure about what type crank was in the car but that it was a 421 (likely a 990 if they were tipping the can). He did say the few times they grenaded the engine on nitro was not a result of a busted piston/rod/crank (from "inferior" parts), but because the tuneup was "off".

Here's a link showing the car, as well as the Gay's car, and the Centurian Firebird (which is what the seller told me my car was when I bought it, but I knew it wasn't true). Also shown is one of my favorites, the Green Elephant (that car looked bad a$$ even sitting still).

http://www.computermagiconline.com/70sfunnycars/

Brian Baker · 01-03-2005, 08:45 AM

Sorry about the link...go to round 16 to see the cars I mentioned.

Steve Barcak · 01-03-2005, 11:57 AM

the guy from Fl wants to forget about what others have done with Pontiacs in the past and eliminate them so some of the n/a carb guys and some bottle people can get on. HA!
ET and MPH accomplishments stand and should always be recognized. these are important things that men have done with real Pontiac power.
If you want to have another list for the slower carb n/a cars and the bottle guys fine. Let's have one for blue cars too. and one for green cars. One for cars with mag wheels too. How about one for cars with am/fm radios. LOL

How many cars on that list ran 12" tires and no transmission?
Another thing- If someone went faster with multiple cars, they should be acknowledged on the list for each car. Arnie had 3 at least, Gay had 3 at least. Tyree maybe 2, Hill probably 2 or 3. etc, etc
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

Scott Misus · 01-03-2005, 02:05 PM

Steve:

I can't believe you forgot about the Ed Schnertz Racing Cam Company Special.

Brian Baker · 01-03-2005, 04:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Steve Barcak:
the guy from Fl wants to forget about what others have done with Pontiacs in the past and eliminate them so some of the n/a carb guys and some bottle people can get on. HA!
ET and MPH accomplishments stand and should always be recognized. these are important things that men have done with real Pontiac power.
If you want to have another list for the slower carb n/a cars and the bottle guys fine. Let's have one for blue cars too. and one for green cars. One for cars with mag wheels too. How about one for cars with am/fm radios. LOL

How many cars on that list ran 12" tires and no transmission?
Another thing- If someone went faster with multiple cars, they should be acknowledged on the list for each car. Arnie had 3 at least, Gay had 3 at least. Tyree maybe 2, Hill probably 2 or 3. etc, etc
Steve http://www.pontiacheaven.org <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve, to pick up where Scott left off, you're just acting like an a$$ now, with this latest statement.

Scott Rex, 7.68 naturally aspirated on gasoline, in a door car. That shouldn't be recognized as the fastest PONTIAC powered door car on the planet...ever?

It's less than 0.2 seconds away from the fastest pass to date with your Apple Krate blown fuel dragster, but hey, you're still on a learning curve in an area where most don't dare tread, so we'll leave it at that. With my last paragraph here, perhaps you'll know now what you sound like with your latest statement.

Scott Misus · 01-03-2005, 05:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:Scott Rex, 7.68 naturally aspirated on gasoline, in a door car. That shouldn't be recognized as the fastest PONTIAC powered door car on the planet...ever?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, because it's NOT the fastest Pontiac-powered door car.

There are several mentioned that are both faster and have doors.

ventura7211 · 01-03-2005, 05:31 PM

How bout we get some weights up there next to the et and mph.

I'm interested in who did what in '04 and who will do what in '05.

"#8 Steve Barcek 7.50@189 was he driving?"

Steve, I thought you had another guy driving your car?

And I'll agree w/ Brian's assessment to your comments, Which is harder 7's in a door car or 7's in a go kart?

"Scott Rex, 7.68 naturally aspirated on gasoline, in a door car. That shouldn't be recognized as the fastest PONTIAC powered door car on the planet...ever? "

N/A right?

GTOGEORGE · 01-03-2005, 05:41 PM

I agree with the DUDE we should stick to the last couple of years. History is great but that's just what it is ....HISTORY.

Scott Rex running 7.68 should never be left out, it just too incredible for a Pontiac Door Slamming N/A car!!

Brian Baker · 01-03-2005, 08:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Scott Misus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:Scott Rex, 7.68 naturally aspirated on gasoline, in a door car. That shouldn't be recognized as the fastest PONTIAC powered door car on the planet...ever?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, because it's NOT the fastest Pontiac-powered door car.

There are several mentioned that are both faster and have doors.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, for the anally retentive Mr. Misus:

Scott Rex, 7.68...fastest naturally aspirated Pontiac powered door car on the planet ever.

There...that better, or are you now going to tell me "anally retentive" has a hyphen?

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