[oldinjun]

OK guys, who can make suggestions on how to best build a Pontiac 350 in the '75 Formula 350 for my daughter's first car? We are totally Pontiac in our family, but all my builds have been bigger cube hot rods. This one is getting SLIGHTLY warmed up using the #'s matching block, currently standard bore, and the TH 350.We just got the car, and have begun tear-down. (Father-Daughter project).
I'm not sure yet of the rear gear ratio, but I suspect a 2.56 or so. This car is now smog exempt in California, so I have some leeway. It's got 5C heads, which make it about 7.6 CR. I'm thinking a .030 overbore and a set of 16's I have will put it at about 9.5CR.
It's getting new suspension and brake gear first, with factory power discs up front, and drum rears. We're going for a kind of SCCA look, low stance, great handling, and MODERATE power, with decent fuel economy. I know, we want the best of both worlds, but that's why I'm asking for opinions. I think Venolia makes a forged piston for the 350 at a decent price, we'll use stock rods w/good bolts, 2-bolt studs on the mains, and a good balance. I have a Performer intake and will use a Holley 600-650 cfm. My biggest unknown so far is cam choice, I'm thinking of a solid version of the 067, or 068 cam. I think it should have some low end grunt, and a mid-range that will pull strong up to about 5K. ( She also wants to bracket race with Dad!) Anyone here have experience on the 350? I'm open to suggestions, thanks!
BTW, most would disagree with putting a teenager in a car like this, but she is remarkably mature, and well grounded, taking all honors ,advanced mathematics, and yep, smarter than her old man!

[Brian Baker]

Build it stock, with a 2 barrel carburetor and a single exhaust. That'll be more than enough power for any teenager just learning to drive to get in trouble with. When she turns 18 and has some driving time under her belt, then maybe you can upgrade to more power.

[Skip Fix]

Tne 16's might not have all the bolt holes for the a;ternator and PS brackets for the 75, I know they don't for 76 and later.

Suspension , find a 1 1/4 TA front sway bar, some stiffer front springs, a 5/8" rear sway bar with some Konis or Bilsteins and it'll corner great especially if you upgrade to 16" wheels or bigger.

[Bad Karma]

I know on a 350 I had It needed the last header hole drilled and tapped because it wasnt there!
Maybe your 5c heads are ok but its something to check It was a PITA with the heads on the engine in the car! I would pull the engine as is and tranny stash away and build a stroked 455
out of a pre 70 block once she can handle the power! I wouldnt build the 350 myself I also blew up 4 of them before i stopped putting them in my first lemans 400 or 455 all the way. Ofcourse Im broke and stuck with a chebby 350 for now but with a 4 11 rear chebby aint so bad to have.

[oldinjun]

Brian, thanks for the concern, and I don't mean to be rude, but I probably know her best. Did you read the entire post? Sorry, but I asked a car question, not how to raise my kids. Guess I'm done here.

[bobzdar]

Well, I would build a 400 with the 5c heads and similar camshaft. Around the same power as the 350 but at lower revs, able to run on 87 octane fuel and when you want to step it up a little it's just a cam and maybe head swap away...Bag the original engine if you think it'll be worth something some day.

Also, fuel economy should be about the same as revs will be a bit lower and efficiency should be the same if not slightly better...

I get 19-20mpg highway with my 8:1 400, but with a manual trans...Would figure around 16-17mpg with similar setup but auto trans, tight converter a must for decent fuel mileage. Also, NO WAY do you want to use a holley (or even afb) if you want decent fuel mileage. Qjet will get much better mileage and provide the same power. A qjet was worth 3mpg vs. afb on my setup (put afb on while rebuilding qjet, around town throttle response also took a big hit).

[blkcrow]

Dont let one sarcastic remark ruin your fun !.If you really want to run a 350 I would stick to the basics and put some good dual exhaust,a comp xe 256 or 262 and a good four barrel intake/carb.My 69 lemans 350 was tourqy even with the stock 2 barrel,it had a bit more compression but thats easily made up with the performance parts.If you really wanted a bit more mill the heads and do a good bowl port with the stock valves but open the intake runners to match the 4 barrel.In my opinion the 350 really cant take advantage of the bigger valves.The most important thing have fun!!!.

[J.C.you]

u mite want to consider a 200 or 700r4 tranny to have a more road friendly rpm ride, with a little more umpphh on take off. i would not raise the compression up too much where u would have to run premium gasoline, if she is planning on running the car alot. the 350 sounds good. a cam like the summit k 2800 kit would work nicely.

[455firebird1969]

Joel,

"BMPMD", (Byron Mcselfresh I believe) who used to post on here frequently, can build a stout 350 (yes he can make a 350 kick some butt), maybe I can find his phone number for you. I have been wondering what happened to him. Maybe he will chime in.

I finally found time to wash my car tonight, it had mechanic tracks on it from that engine change, now its ready for Atlanta...

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oldinjun:
Brian, thanks for the concern, and I don't mean to be rude, but I probably know her best. Did you read the entire post? Sorry, but I asked a car question, not how to raise my kids. Guess I'm done here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, Pops. Forget the 350 then. Let's put a 455 in there with ported Edelbrock heads and a hydraulic roller. Top it with an RPM intake and a Holley 850. That will easily make a conservative 550-HP. After all, if she's going to wrap herself around a telephone pole with it, you may as well give her as much power as you can so she can do so with great efficiency.

Don't build her something just because you wanted it yourself when you were her age and your old man had the common sense not to let you have it.

No matter how well you know your daughter, teenagers are impulsive. Combine that with a lack of experience and excessive HP and you may as well be signing her death certificate.

Keep it simple, and both of you will still have great fun with the project.

["Guy]

Sweet daughter!! I would talk with Larry Navaro or Steve Combs both have nice looking and preforming firebirds....they both have been there done that with the firebird. When I had my 76 455, 4spd TA I went with Herb Adams parts and the t10 tranny mild build...it was a great car! Here is a bueaty...

["Guy]

the car.....

["Guy]

B&M supercharger, NOS, FI...all hand made...

[oldinjun]

OK Brian, you win. I'll take your advice and NOT give her what she's been working so hard for. I'm not going to reward her for being an honor roll student, or working the dragstrip with me, or taking care of her mother through illness. THAT should really fire her up. I forgot when I asked the question that there was a guy back east that would really enlighten me with his know-it-all attitude, his rolling eyes symbol, and talk down to me when all I asked was a CAR question. I'm not your Pops, lucky for you. As for cars, my first was a '66 GTO, my dad helped me build, and taught me to drive/race. If I wanted family advice, I probably would have gone to Dr. Laura's website. Anyone can say what they'd like here about me, but I've had enough of this guy, and when I thought I was asking a group of freinds for car advice, I get this A-hole telling me what's best for my kids. Sorry, but I'm pissed at you Brian, for your condescending ways, and I'm not going to discuss this subject again. You simply don't know what you're talking about. I've never had a problem with you, but you obviously have not learned where not to step in people's lives. I'll be away for a while, maybe you guys can teach him some manners while I'm gone. You kids play nice!

[Formulas]

I have messed with 350`s before and as far as performance goes you have to pick components more precisely than with bigger engines.
2.56 gear and 7.6 compression are a death blow to the 350.
I have used #48`s and #11`s and #47`s on a 350 with 2800 / 2801 / 068 cams and with 3.3-2.7 gear.
My advice would be start her our with a 68-70 2bbl heads replacing the studs and a mild port job and a .030 mill.. 2800x1.65`s lots of low end torque and pulls hard in the mid range, i cant remember the top RPM .. 4bbl Q-jet headers 3.3-3.7 gear and it wouldnt hurt to have a small efficient converter as well.
Using 400 4bbl heads present other problems like intake valve to piston and exhaust valve to bore clearance issues. but they sure do extend the RPM range of a 350 with the increase of compression and the flow. you would have to make sure the pistons are notched right and chamfer your bore near the exhaust and check everything real close on build.

[OINK 1]

Put the #16's on , run the 2 barrel, call and I'll explain how to build alt. adaptor. Save the 5C's, they're great on a 455. Now, install GPS system, hooked to your home monitor, remote camera, Daddy controlled remote kill switch ( 100 mile range ). Cell phone blocker, ( always on so she has to walk away from the car.1-303-776-0877

[J.C.you]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oldinjun:
OK Brian, you win. I'll take your advice and NOT give her what she's been working so hard for. I'm not going to reward her for being an honor roll student, or working the dragstrip with me, or taking care of her mother through illness. THAT should really fire her up. I forgot when I asked the question that there was a guy back east that would really enlighten me with his know-it-all attitude, his rolling eyes symbol, and talk down to me when all I asked was a CAR question. I'm not your Pops, lucky for you. As for cars, my first was a '66 GTO, my dad helped me build, and taught me to drive/race. If I wanted family advice, I probably would have gone to Dr. Laura's website. Anyone can say what they'd like here about me, but I've had enough of this guy, and when I thought I was asking a group of freinds for car advice, I get this A-hole telling me what's best for my kids. Sorry, but I'm pissed at you Brian, for your condescending ways, and I'm not going to discuss this subject again. You simply don't know what you're talking about. I've never had a problem with you, but you obviously have not learned where not to step in people's lives. I'll be away for a while, maybe you guys can teach him some manners while I'm gone. You kids play nice! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

old injun, bahahah hahhhha, well said!!!!!!!!!

[Thumpin455_GTO]

If you rerally want to keep the 350, I would mill the 5C heads or get some 6X-4's. I run 5C's and they have all the holes, 2.11 intakes, and screw in studs. That means they will flow ok and parts are available for them, plus the studs wont pull out. Big valve 72 cc 16's would work, but at 9.5 you need 92 octane, somewhere around 8:1 would be better and allow her to put anything in there, it will run great with no appreciable loss in power. How much is premium out in cali right now? Here its $2.30 give or take.

Build the bottom like you would anything else for a mild street application. Cast pistons would be fine, but if Venolia or Ross make a good set you know about the insurance part already.

The 068 would work pretty well in the 350, but I would go for the summit 2800 or 2801, add in the 2004R and mild 2.73 or 3.08 gears with injection or a Qjet and you wont be spending a ton in fuel. I found I got better mileage with my 74 Formula 350 with a Qjet than I did with the 2 barrel. With just a carb/intake swap it went from 8 to 15 mpg, the power went up a little, but it would do little more than spin one tire briefly.

EFI is getting easier and cheaper to install on our cars. The bonus from a direct port is much improved economy and driveability, so she doesnt get stuck at the mall with a flooded 350 and burn through $500 in gas every month. Its an idea I am throwing out, in the end its up to you.

As far as power, more torque on the bottom will get better mileage. The less an engine has to work the better the mileage will be. A mild cam with under .480 lift is what you want. You dont have to build her a 500+hp stroker, but you can get a 300 hp 350 that doesnt want to kill more dinosaurs, and that will smoke a honda with a wing, but not be so powerful that she learns lock to lock drifting in two months.

Sounds like a great car for her, My daughter is getting my 72 GTO with a mild 400, it will have bark and some bite, but not kill me in gas. My daughter is a speed crazy type like me, who always wants to go faster and loved the feeling of the 455 pullin from stop lights in my 70 GTO. Your daughter sounds like a great kid who has a great dad giving her an awesome car. Good thing its not a Mazda or Honda or something...

[Motor Daddy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brian Baker:
Build it stock, with a 2 barrel carburetor and a single exhaust. That'll be more than enough power for any teenager just learning to drive to get in trouble with. When she turns 18 and has some driving time under her belt, then maybe you can upgrade to more power. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ditto!

oldinjun, I lost 4 friends in High school in car "accidents". They were all "well grounded" individuals that power got the best of! Inexperienced teenage drivers are killed on a daily basis. The number one question of the victims parents is:

WHY???

[Brian Baker]

Well, nice reply Mr. Merrick. At least there's one person out there that understands where I'm coming from.

OldInjun...I'm not your friend. I don't even know you. You asked for car advice, and I gave car advice.

"Build it stock with a 2 barrel carb and single exhaust". Sounds like good sound car advice to me for a teenagers first car. Imagine how silly I'd sound if I said you should install a 455 with EFI and a turbo making in excess of 800-HP? Keep it simple, and you'll both still have great fun with the project...that will be reward enough.