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#21
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i did just have a th350c rebuilt locally in the last 2-3 years, called around to the big name trans shops, they wanted $600-$800, aamco being the highest & the others were bigger shops that have been around my town for 30-40 years. this is for a basic rebuild, no fancy race parts but included a name brand rebuild kit, 1yr warranty, with me bringing the trans to them. not sure how much more a 200r, 700r, or 4l60/80 would be. im all for using the better trans if/when its needed. for this situation its going to be cruising around town & doing 70+mph commutes on the highway with 400hp . in this case the 200 would probably be the cheaper & easier install, i recall HPP was doing some articles on 200r swap & you could use a factory x/member, & maybe even the stock driveshaft, no trans tunnel mods & keep the factory shifter. i fully agree any OD option will be expensive. in this situation, a cheaper & easier way by far would be to just change the rear gear, a 3.08 or 2.73 would be ok except for long interstate trips at 80+mph. & could keep the good th400. |
#22
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Not sure for the GP but for my 76 TA when I swapped from TH400 to 2004R I used the same cross member in the same place and only had to use a slightly taller tranny mount, the same drive shaft with no length change, a new yoke (GM 27 spline), no mods to tunnel, used same B&M Mega shifter that came with ability to go to 4 speed, added a TV cable set-up and used great instructions available from Extreme (and elsewhere I am sure) and a Comp Cam mount kit (304147) for my Sniper since the universal mount was problematic, and I was highly advised to get a good cooler with fan (went to the Derale 13720 for the recommended specs - could have went cheaper but wanted to get past nervousness from over thinking) and matching inline thermostat Derale 35020.
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#23
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If you need 2004R work
Lonnie Dyer (sp?) at Extreme Automatics in Amelia Ohio (Cincinnati east side) is one of the most reputable 2004R guys for the Turbo Buick crowd. However some $$ not sure how his prices compare. And of course he does other transmissions
My buddy has one in his ‘87 TType WE4. I am considering to budget for one of his trans when the day comes. Re Monte SS better trans, IIRC the difference is valve body used in in Monte SS, turbo Buicks, and maybe 442, something about G or F….
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71 Firebird Esprit 94 TA - 396 LT1 powered - Bought new in 1993. Total money pit Cars gone by - 76 Formula, 73 Esprit, 75 Esprit. 87 Buick WE4 |
#24
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Are the 4L80 cores or T400 cores getting hard to find? |
#25
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Both according to Hughes, at least around these parts anyway
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The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post: | ||
#26
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So just to give you a little more insight into my ultimate goal with this car. It's my 69 GP that I've owned since July 1985. It was my daily driver for several years until I decided to only use it ocassionally in order to preserve it. Now I've decided that instead of having it sit most of the time, I want to drive it again most, or all of the time. So I'm going with the original 400 block, bore to 4.155, I have a 4" stroke forged crank with 3" mains, bbc rod journals, I'll use 6.8 H-beams. I'm thinking about using Edelbrock D-ports (no porting except maybe a "clean-up"), shoot for 10:1 compression, hydraulic roller 220/228 .470 lift on a 112 (approx specs). RPM intake 800 cfm Q-jet. AOD trans that we've been talking about, and 3.55 gears. Eventually I'll put bigger brakes w/ disc all around and upgrade the suspension with aftermarket control arms, adjustable shocks, sway bars, etc. Once I get the car where I want it, I intend on running the Silver State Classic with it at least once so I can mark that off my bucket list. Right now I have not begun on this at all. It's just on paper so things might change.
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#27
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9eWgLd0q-U |
#28
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9eWgLd0q-U |
#29
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You won't regret the overdrive decision. The initial cost might sting at first but after you drive the car you'll wonder why it wasn't done sooner.
One thing I really like about 200's are the gear ratios. The 2.74 first gear will really help get that big car moving, and the .67 overdrive will work nice with 3.55's. 2100 rpm will be about 70 mph with a 27-ish tall tire. A lot of builders shy away from the lockup converter on these types of TV cable transmissions mainly because of the way it's activated. Usually electric solenoid via vacuum switch or one of the two. Very hard to adjust them to engage exactly where you want, and behind an engine with a bumpy camshaft can cause chugging when engaged at an inopportune time. Some of the vacuum switches can be tweaked with a small adjustment screw but the range is very limited. That's where the electronic control transmissions have an advantage, as that lockup feature can now be programmed via computer to engage and disengage anywhere you please. Even with that said, looking at your current planned build, and I'm sure you already know this, but a ~434-ish engine with a 220/228 @ .050 cam on a 112 should idle pretty darn smooth and produce a ton of vacuum, so I wouldn't suspect chugging with a lockup converter to be an issue. |
#30
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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2 373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft 308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471 |
#31
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ok wasnt sure on things like that, just a suggestion on a gear change.
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#32
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Go with the 200. It's FAR cheaper than the 4l80E to install. I've put all three in different cars, 200, 700, and 4L80E's. The 4L800 takes the controller, bellhousing adapter, and it is expensive to buy initially. Certainly stronger, but at your power level a properly built 200 should be fine.
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62' Lemans, Nostalgia Super Stock, 541 CI, IA2 block, billet 4.5" crank, Ross, Wide port Edelbrocks, Gustram intake, 2 4150 style BLP carbs, 2.10 Turbo 400, 9" w/4:30 gears, 8.76 @153, 3100lbs |
#33
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What Larry said...
"A lot of builders shy away from the lockup converter on these types of TV cable transmissions mainly because of the way it's activated. Usually electric solenoid via vacuum switch or one of the two. Very hard to adjust them to engage exactly where you want, and behind an engine with a bumpy camshaft can cause chugging when engaged at an inopportune time. Some of the vacuum switches can be tweaked with a small adjustment screw but the range is very limited." At the time I had a lock-up converter installed the cam was either a 260 or 255 @ .050" solid roller with 0.701" or 0.709" lift and a 110 LSA, I don't remember which now. It was "bumpy". That can lead to issues Larry eludes to. Much will depend on the overall combination but for me personally with bigger cams and anywhere from 635-660 HP the best thing we did early on was to change to a non lock up converter on my 2004R transmission. That and a proper TV cable hook up. My non-lock up converter was built by Continental and purchased thru Cliff Ruggles. It is well coupled out on the open highway with about a 200 rpm slippage. The transmission has been in service for almost 12 years. .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
#34
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I run a Gear Vendors in my '65 only because it was added after I'd already been running a high dollar built T400. It works great, but I wish the OD was deeper than 0.78. If I were starting from scratch with nothing, 4L80 would be my choice in a higher hp car.
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65 Lemans Street Car - 521, T400, 3.70 9". 10.13 @ 135. 3770 lbs. Drag Week ‘14, ‘15, ‘17 63 Lemans Race Car- 8.81 @ 151, 5.60 @ 123(SOLD) 67 Bonneville ragtop 74 Firebird - 455, e heads, TK0600 in process |
#35
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Wouldn't think it would be that hard to design another one with a little more reduction to fill that void, there really isn't much to the unit. It's been .78 for as long as I can remember. What I don't like now is that Tremec is starting to follow that trend as the new TKX has jumped up to a .68 now instead of the .64 they had for decades. They would have been better served changing that horrible 2-3 gear spread and left OD alone. Last edited by Formulajones; 10-07-2021 at 02:49 PM. |
#36
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I heard Continental has been shut down for some time now. Any recommendations for a non-locking converter?
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#37
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Lenny is one of the best....
http://www.ultimateconverter.com Lenny at UCC used to work with Kris at Continental years ago. A few years ago my non lock up Continental torque converter in my 2004R transmission developed a cracked hub where it is welded into the body. We sent it to Lenny for repairs. .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
#38
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Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; 10-14-2021 at 03:07 AM. |
#39
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Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; 10-14-2021 at 05:15 AM. |
#40
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+2 on Lonnie at Extreme. I'm also running one of his 200R4's - no problems at all yet. Using a Lock-up converter. works great. 400 HP 460 TQ combo.
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"I know just enough to keep me here, but not enough to get me out" |
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