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#1
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To reuse or to not reuse copper oil pump gasket - that is the question
Building a motor too late into the night, and so I go ahead and install the oil pump without the pump shaft. The pump came with a copper gasket. Instructions for the pump say DO NOT REUSE the copper gasket. Can I take the pump off, install the shaft, and REUSE the copper gasket? Is the threat of it not sealing and letting air into the system real? Am I just being silly? Thanks.
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'70 GP Model J 462 Butler ported 87cc Edelbrock D-ports RPM intake with Holley Sniper 2 CompCams 236/242 hydraulic roller Tribal Tubes tri-y headers TH400 13" Continental "Jim Hand Special" 3.50 9" CurrieTrac, 245/45-18 Front, 275/40-18 Rear |
#2
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Never heard of a copper gasket for the pump. If it seats perfectly in the exact same spot as initially seated I would think it would be ok. I've always used the paper ones. How thick is it?
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When people tell me they HAD to sell their car when they started a family, I show them the three car seats in the back of my 69Trans-Am..............and we didn't even use car seats back then!! |
#3
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"Am I the only one who gives a $#&! about the rules?!?!?!" Love your avatar. Anyway, I don't know the thickness. Will measure and get back.
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'70 GP Model J 462 Butler ported 87cc Edelbrock D-ports RPM intake with Holley Sniper 2 CompCams 236/242 hydraulic roller Tribal Tubes tri-y headers TH400 13" Continental "Jim Hand Special" 3.50 9" CurrieTrac, 245/45-18 Front, 275/40-18 Rear |
#4
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Most copper gaskets have specific crush thickness. Once it had been “ crushed”, it may not seal correctly if used again. This is why I NEVER reuse gaskets....
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
#5
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Quote:
Agree, I use the basic paper gasket and it has worked fine for me for years. There is a specific torque for the oil pump bolts and that torque spec was NOT designed for a copper gasket between the pump and the block. If you can't get a Paper Gasket, use RTV, and then torque the bolts to the Pontiac spec. A copper gasket in that location would make me very nervous as far as the oil pump bolts coming loose. Who is saying use a copper gasket in that location? Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#6
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Zero threat of letting air into the System, even when sitting.
I use as thin a gasket, as strong a gasket, or no gasket (thin film of RTV) for pump to block. Wonder why my roll of copper tape has not been tried...lifetime supply of gaskets there. Not keen on a thick paper gasket for oil mount in heat and vibration. |
#7
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Quote:
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3 Generations of "Beach Boys Racing" ! Everybody knows somthin. Nobody knows everything ! 1st time on a dragstrip, 1964. Flagstart ! "Thanks for the entertainment." "Real Indians Don't Wear Bowties" |
#8
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THIS
Quote:
Clay
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All the federales say,they could've had him any day They only let him slip away, out of kindness...I suppose Poncho & Lefty |
#9
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Only possible reason I could think of for copper would be someone that is removing and reinstalling the pump a lot. The paper gaskets tend to come apart on removal since they are very, very thin. Perhaps Butler has found that leaks at that location are not a problem and copper can be reused multiple times.
I know the copper gaskets I have used on other applications have required simple annealing every time they are reused. |
#10
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Yes. Annealing to eliminate effect of work hardening is the key.
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#11
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"Instructions for the pump say DO NOT REUSE the copper gasket."
For $5.95 plus the ride, why would you even consider not following instructions?? With that, your gasket set likely has the paper gasket, use that, 30# torque, and forget about it. |
#12
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Too much screwing around (with that copper gasket), in my mind. Only reason I can see to use the copper gasket is if some of the oil pump driveshafts (attached to the one gear) were a touch long so the copper gasket would allow a bit more clearance for the intermediate shaft to not bind up. Paper gaskets for me.
Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#13
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It came with the oil pump from Butler.
Quote:
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Yeah, I can certainly paper gasket the pump, which is what I have done in the past, but I wanted to use what was supplied with the pump. It's not worth the $15 or more it would likely cost me to have Butler send another copper gasket.
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'70 GP Model J 462 Butler ported 87cc Edelbrock D-ports RPM intake with Holley Sniper 2 CompCams 236/242 hydraulic roller Tribal Tubes tri-y headers TH400 13" Continental "Jim Hand Special" 3.50 9" CurrieTrac, 245/45-18 Front, 275/40-18 Rear |
#14
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Quote:
Quote:
Wrong as that part of the instructions is....I'd question the not being able to use the copper gasket. Drain plugs with copper washers don't seem to have a problem. Look at the copper gasket when you pull the pump. If it has an imprint that can't be replicated on the re-install....might consider doing something different. Clay
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All the federales say,they could've had him any day They only let him slip away, out of kindness...I suppose Poncho & Lefty |
#15
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Instead of asking all these great minds, why not call MR. Butler ?
(866) 762-7527
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3 Generations of "Beach Boys Racing" ! Everybody knows somthin. Nobody knows everything ! 1st time on a dragstrip, 1964. Flagstart ! "Thanks for the entertainment." "Real Indians Don't Wear Bowties" Last edited by Old Goat Racer; 03-06-2018 at 11:15 AM. |
#16
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I seen a guy once use a gasket there made out of a thick brown paper sack. The kind you get your groceries in. I would not do it, but the stockish engine is still running.
But I am not sure why reusing a very simple, thin copper gasket there would be any problem at all. pretty sure I reused mine the last time I freshend my 455. I have allen bolts in place of the factory ones. I use torque wrenches for things like head bolts, mains and rods but never have for oil pumps of even the cover on the oil pump after bluprinting. I know how much to tighten 5/16 and 3/8 bolts after doing so many. Positive some will say use the torque wrench on these but never had a issue. |
#17
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Because he doesn't answer the phone at 4:38 p.m. on a Sunday!!!
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'70 GP Model J 462 Butler ported 87cc Edelbrock D-ports RPM intake with Holley Sniper 2 CompCams 236/242 hydraulic roller Tribal Tubes tri-y headers TH400 13" Continental "Jim Hand Special" 3.50 9" CurrieTrac, 245/45-18 Front, 275/40-18 Rear |
#18
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He does at 9:09 AM on Tuesday.
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3 Generations of "Beach Boys Racing" ! Everybody knows somthin. Nobody knows everything ! 1st time on a dragstrip, 1964. Flagstart ! "Thanks for the entertainment." "Real Indians Don't Wear Bowties" |
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