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#1
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A different DOHC Pontiac
Probably a majority of the posters here are into traditional V8 Power and drag racing, but I know there a few who like to carve a corner or use smaller power plants. I thought I would share my latest “find” with the board for the sake of novelty and its’ relative rarity.
Attached photos are the 16V DOHC head for the Super Duty 4 cyl program from the late 80’s. This was mfg by Cosworth for Pontiac (KK0555 for the top end kit). Pontiac rated this configuration at 375HP at 3.0L with a recommended shift point at 8250RPM. While I really don’t have any current use for this, it is just such a rare item that I couldn’t pass it up. It’s basically NOS; the top end, block, crank, and assembly kit were purchased directly from GM but were never used, and sat in the owners shop for the last 10-15yrs (although the block, head, injectors, front cover, and dist were mocked up for display). I’ve got a LOT of small GM parts bags to go through still, but here are some photos of the “cool stuff” just for your entertainment and reference. Post up if you if you want to see some additional photos or info. Hey, anyone have a set of Cams for one of these??
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68 Tempest Conv 06 GTO SRM A4 462 Ram Air VI-LXXI motor in progress |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Blowd For This Useful Post: | ||
#2
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I love weird stuff and Pontiac "historical" type things. Keep the pictures coming, please.
Eric |
#3
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Cool Blowd - was that based on the Iron Duke- really the last true Pontiac engine .
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The Bandit Rules - Make mine with a SD-455 Engine . |
#4
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Thank you for those cool pictures. That would look real good in my 63 Tempest or my 79 Safari.
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fasteddy |
#5
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The Superduty 4 parts are strictly race bread. I have one of the later blocks which had features such as: 5 [roller] cam bearings, 3/4" deck and main webs, semi siamesed cylinders, and deep head bolt bosses to name a few. The crank I have is 4130, fully counterweighted, [semi] knife edged, 3.625 stroke, with a Pontiac part number. No coincidence that John Callies was heading up Pontiac Performance at the time. Heads began with cast iron units that flowed 80% better than production counterparts, later developing into "433" and "801" (known by the last 3 digits of the GM part number)aluminum castings from Brodix. And finally the Coswoth DB head you see above. Brodix also made an aluminum SD block that was available through GM. There are much better and more detailed resources available on this engine, but that's the Cliff Notes... I'll try to get some photos of the block and crank up here later.
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68 Tempest Conv 06 GTO SRM A4 462 Ram Air VI-LXXI motor in progress Last edited by Blowd; 02-06-2009 at 11:52 AM. Reason: usual typos.. |
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#6
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So then, if I am understanding correctly, this is a Pontiac head to fit the Oldsmobile "Quad 4" and not the Pontiac "iron duke" block?
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
#7
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Seen an "out-of-this-world" GM OHC 4CYL in the U-Pull-it ~Nov2008. Looked valuable. Should I go back to ID it?
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#8
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The whole reason they did this is because Pontiac didn't want to use the Vega all aluminum engine in their small cars (Astre Sunbird) because of the poor reliability and warranty problems associated with the Vega engine. As history shows the Iron Duke had it's own share of problems when the blocks nickel content was dropped in the early eighties resulting in premature cylinder wear and the telltale piston slap and blowby issues associated with these engines. The Super Duty block however had much better material in it and more reinforcment that the standard passenger car block did. Also the timing gears failed around 80-100,000 miles and were noisey long before they failed. And the vendor QC issues for whoever was making the connecting rods for GM that resulted in an approximated 25% failure rate of the deficient rods. The ventilated blocks were said to cause many of the resultant early model Fieros burn to the ground fire issues along with a smaller capacity oil pan (3.8 Qts.) in this car that allowed the engine to run out of oil more quickly than the warranty replacement 5 Qt. pans. The Tech 4 derivative was supposed to address these problems and kinda did in the late 80s, although timing gear failure was still an issue. Probably a little known fact is that the 301 shared some parts with the Iron Duke too. Connecting rod and bearings and pistons bore sizes were shared. The pistons can't be interchanged due to the staggered valves in the Iron Duke head. Remember the 151 X 2 = 302 or close enough to 301. Pontiac did this in the early 60s with the 194 and the 389 too, to save some design and machining costs. |
#9
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I believe it's a Cosworth head to fit the Iron duke block not the Quad 4. Cosworth also made heads to fit the Vega all aluminum engine around 75-77, which was also a 16 valve arrangement as this head is.
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#10
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I myself would trade mine for a basic IA2 shortblock....
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68 Tempest Conv 06 GTO SRM A4 462 Ram Air VI-LXXI motor in progress |
#11
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The Cosworth Vega was "loosely" based on the Vega aluminum block, but there were some differences. It was also 2.0 lr. as opposed to 2.3. Sweet runner! MUCH tougher than the 2.3 counterpart. And while similar, the Quad-4 head doesn't have the open side. Quad-4 is a GREAT engine, with some "quirks".
In the early '90s, we built a fair number of the 2.7 lr. version of the 2.5 SD for "midget" racers. In one case, we dynoed one with 314 RWHP, gasoline, Hilborn injected. Those used the aluminum "cross-flow" SD head. GORGEOUS head! The same 2.5 SDs dominated the "Goody's Dash" series for a number of years. In NASCAR "Mini-Stock", all "aftermarket" parts were banned. They still allowed lighter pistons and better rods, but ONLY "production" heads, blocks and cranks. They gave the 2.3 Ford a tremendous advantage by allowing the roller rockers, "turbo" head, etc. Still, we managed a few wins with the ol' Duke. Today, we're in "parts collection" mode for an '86 Fiero we want to put a 3.4 Twin-cam in. That's another very well executed DOHC GM offering. FWIW Jim |
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#12
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I will say that it was not 166 CI and according to the owner they were only twisting it 7000. I do have a soft spot for them and always thought a stripper 3rd gen Firebird with about 200 CID SD and a Hair dryer would be a neat ride. I ran the what if's years ago and think it was good for 475 HP on gas and that was not leaning on it very hard. In the day The Pontiac for midgets was a very reliable program compared to the Fontana and the Cosworth. The Pontiac spelled the end to the run by Autocraft VW's in Midgets. The Cosworth was only a few HP more and at 122 CID lacked the TQ of the SD. I can say I never have seen that head Cosworth) for the SD. It would have had to run at 122 CID and would have to have been much better than the 801 to make up for the 44 inches. Just some thoughts from long ago and far away
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72 GTO 400-M20 Lucy Blue 86 2+2 Black 09 G8 GT red 08 Torrent GXP (wife's) 09 G8 ST (UTE) black A pissed off fat house chimp on dope would be a lot more deadly. |
#13
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Just did a Google search and according to Petersen's tech - the IRON DUKE 4 cyl . ( 77-93 ) is half a Pontiac 301 V8 - so there you go .
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The Bandit Rules - Make mine with a SD-455 Engine . |
#14
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You've opened the proverbial can now
I'll start, Pontiac bore spacing = 4.62 Duke bore spacing = 4.25 (appr it's metric). Did I mention there was some debate on this topic? While the origins are really moot to me (except for parts interchange), as a Pontiac guy I've always referred to the Duke as a Poncho, but Sirrotica has already made the compelling argument on this. The 153 predates the 301 considerably and it's hard to argue when you look at 'em side by side.
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68 Tempest Conv 06 GTO SRM A4 462 Ram Air VI-LXXI motor in progress |
#15
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I would figure it had the same bore spacing(4.4) as a SBC , nova 4, or chevy six? I have read the chevy 6 is the same as the SBC, and since the nova 4 and iron duke were based on this I figured it would be the same.
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#16
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So for those who haven't messed with an SD4 block before here's a pic of the bottom end. Plenty of support, the pan rail is also thicker than production blocks. I mentioned 5 cam bearings before, it's more like 3 and 2 halves.
Crankshaft is pretty indestuctable by Pontiac standards. They originally shipped these with Chevy Bow Tie rods. You have to use a narrow rod bearing due to chamfer on both sides. There is also an oiling modification to oil the cylinders. I'll get more pics of the Cosworth stuff and put 'em up for those who were interested.
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68 Tempest Conv 06 GTO SRM A4 462 Ram Air VI-LXXI motor in progress Last edited by Blowd; 02-06-2009 at 08:13 PM. |
#17
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Why did I even bring this up..
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68 Tempest Conv 06 GTO SRM A4 462 Ram Air VI-LXXI motor in progress Last edited by Blowd; 02-06-2009 at 08:25 PM. |
#18
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Thats cool, no big deal.
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#19
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Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
#20
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The bore and stroke is the same as a 301 but it is NOT half a 301 like the Tempest 194.5 was half a 389.
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Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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