[JimFB400HO]

This is one of the better summaries of the auto production industry's plans for the ramp up of software, electric motors and batteries and the demise of gasoline/diesel engines. The expertise of the engine designers is being lost to retirements.

"Gas Engines, and the People Behind Them, Are Cast Aside for Electric Vehicles" Wall Street Journal 7/23/21

https://archive.vn/AXoiD#selection-833.2-833.72

[padgett]

OTOH we come from a time that is a peak of gasoline engine development. For a street engine is hard to do better than a Pentastar/EcoBoost/High Feature engine. All in the 3-4 liter, DOHC, VVT, 24 valve 6 range of around 300 hp with a 4,000 rpm torque band that run on almost anything. Perfect for a 3-4,000 lb street car. (lotsa math going back over 50 years behind that statement).

Those are going to be around for a long time unless prohibited.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by JimFB400HO

The expertise of the engine designers is being lost to retirements.

This is a problem all across industry. Bean counters and management dazzlers are big on "what we need right now" hiring practices and expect that they can get an expert to come work for their sh$(*y company for peanuts on a contract basis for 3-6 months at a time. As one of those "almost experts" in my field I see the older generation retiring and leaving and management not keeping any of their skills or design notes around.

As for the engines... it's hard to argue against them when they move a car around decently with nice power and can get nearly 30-35MPG.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by JimFB400HO

This is one of the better summaries of the auto production industry's plans for the ramp up of software, electric motors and batteries and the demise of gasoline/diesel engines. The expertise of the engine designers is being lost to retirements.

Originally Posted by Ben M.

This is a problem all across industry. Bean counters and management dazzlers are big on "what we need right now" hiring practices and expect that they can get an expert to come work for their sh$(*y company for peanuts on a contract basis for 3-6 months at a time. As one of those "almost experts" in my field I see the older generation retiring and leaving and management not keeping any of their skills or design notes around.

I just had this conversation this weekend (at the racetrack) with a friend who is still working.

As one of the "old guys" that was pushed out to retire, my perspective is this:

Electric cars are still cars. Just because you have an electric powertrain does not mean you can forget about the "car" parts: tires/wheels, body structure, interior trim, sheetmetal fit and finish, paint, assembly, driveability, etc.

My experience is that the kids that are good at video games can't design their own brackets to hang their electrical stuff on, much less a compete vehicle.

K

[bird72]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

My experience is that the kids that are good at video games can't design their own brackets to hang their electrical stuff on, much less a compete vehicle.

K

I know "kids" that are good at video games that have designed and built their own computers from the frame up, because they wanted the fastest and best for gaming.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by bird72

I know "kids" that are good at video games that have designed and built their own computers from the frame up, because they wanted the fastest and best for gaming.

While this is true, and I know a couple too, I am bettering they couldn't even explain any one component.
" just toss another one in" is the modern way.
Understanding is left to the folks off shore as Any Americans with insight are pushed out.
This can hurt folks. Look at the people who think their Pontiac engine needs a " multiple spark discharge " unit and they never go over 4500 rpm. Many of those units are " potted" electronics that Can't cool. Note a few cars broke down in Power tour last few years.
The more dependent on electronics we DONT need, the more it will cost , and. Well a EM pulse could dust the whole electric fleet, while a member drives by in his 67 Catalina with a smile...

[Overkillphil]

Originally Posted by bird72

I know "kids" that are good at video games that have designed and built their own computers from the frame up, because they wanted the fastest and best for gaming.

Yeah but ultimately they're simply ordering standardized component parts and assembling it. (usually stuff that just plugs in one way or another). And the choices/options are usually prescribed online so essentially a box of computer components/parts could be assembled by a trained Chimp.

[Keith Seymore]

I feel like I took us in the ditch a bit by using the word "kids".

My point is independent of any implied age. My point was that, at GM, we made an organizational change to have electrical engineers design and release their own bracketry and hardware to support their electrical components. It was a disaster, so we moved that responsibility back to the corresponding mechanical engineers.

Hence my statement that even electric vehicles still need all the "car" mechanical stuff, and mechanical engineers to do it. Retiring off all the old car guys and experts in vehicle dynamics, body structures, manufacturing and vehicle assembly and backfilling them with EE's will prove to be a huge mistake.

K

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

My experience is that the kids that are good at video games can't design their own brackets to hang their electrical stuff on, much less a compete vehicle.

Kids are just that though, kids. They don't have the experience and if they don't need to do it, why would they learn? I was terrible at design and building things in my entire 20s, it wasn't until 35ish that I stopped sucking at things.

And you're absolutely correct. Cars are still cars regardless of what they are powered by. Electric, diesel, gas, etc. They all require engineering and technical skill to design, assemble, and maintain. And so many companies think once an engineer or technician gets to 55, it's time to show them the door ASAP.

As far as the electric revolution, I welcome it and think it has great potential. The ICE is my personal favorite, just like horse and buggy is still favored by some folks. But I see the potential in electric cars and hope they continue to improve. Petroleum is great for a dense fuel energy source, but it also has its share of problems. Batteries do as well, it's a constant tradeoff as even a horse and buggy has their share of technology problems and limitations.

If we're really going to old-man-eye-roll technology, let's focus that ridicule where it's deserved: the fusion people who are just "10 years away" from fusion powered cars and have been for 50 years...

[Half-Inch Stud]

Disel-powered electric Traction cars sound good to me.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Disel-powered electric Traction cars sound good to me.

You are a train guy, I knew it!

[padgett]

I'd rather meet Dagny Taggart.

[MidnightAuto]

Start stock piling parts.

[mgarblik]

If you ever wondered what it felt like around 1915-1925, when the rugged and reliable horse was being "put out to pasture" by these noisy, complicated, mechanical contraptions, bent on the destruction of transportation as we know it. You have idea of how the horseman, stall keepers, blacksmiths, buggy whip manufacturers, saddle manufacturers and buggy factories must have felt. Not saying I like it, but it's here and more and more of them are being built and sold every day. I see on average 4-5 Tesla's every day now. A year ago, it was one a month. Hopefully, they can all get along on the road together for several decades because a super rapid deployment of only electric vehicles will wreck the economy and crash the existing electric grid. They can't keep up now with current demand, add 10 million electric vehicles a year and see how that all plays out.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

If you ever wondered what it felt like around 1915-1925, when the rugged and reliable horse was being "put out to pasture" by these noisy, complicated, mechanical contraptions, bent on the destruction of transportation as we know it. You have idea of how the horseman, stall keepers, blacksmiths, buggy whip manufacturers, saddle manufacturers and buggy factories must have felt. Not saying I like it, but it's here and more and more of them are being built and sold every day. I see on average 4-5 Tesla's every day now. A year ago, it was one a month. Hopefully, they can all get along on the road together for several decades because a super rapid deployment of only electric vehicles will wreck the economy and crash the existing electric grid. They can't keep up now with current demand, add 10 million electric vehicles a year and see how that all plays out.

And when the emergency charging vehicle shows up with a Generator powered by Diesel, all will come full circle

[padgett]

Florida has black/brown outs now.

[dataway]

Billions and Billions of dollars of infrastructure updates and changes over a couple of decades will be necessary to remove IC engines. So we still have some time.

Hurricane, forest fire, earthquake ... during an evacuation the gas vehicles are going to be driving around all the electric vehicles that crashed the grid charging up to get out of town.

But who knows, battery innovations happen every month, at some point the power density and charge time will catch up to gas. Still .... going to be a tough problem to solve a million people panic charging their vehicles at the same moment. A gas pump delivers way more energy, way faster and can be run with a generator.

The future will sort itself out and at 80 I'm probably not going to care much about what makes my car go ... if I even still drive

[Shiny]

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out but for sure the change is coming sooner than I would have expected.

[Charlie Brengun]

Don't worry about it, they aren't sufficient resources available to make enough batteries for cars. Even with the low number of EVs being produced today car manafacturers have had to pause or stop EV making because of battery supply problems.

In 2020 approx 1.2 million EVs were made out of 78 million cars in total.. Electric cars are never going to be a realistic option.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Battery innovations will NEVER reach Gasoline energy density.

Small Nuclear power sources can do it, if allowed. But will never be production items to just anybody.

Direct-injection Hydrogen has promise for classic Combustion Engines.