[66sprint6]

My son and I drove a couple hours to see a gentleman that has a Pontiac 400 for sale. It's installed in a '69 GTO, but It's not the original motor to the car. It's a built up motor that he put in place while he slowly re-did the original engine. That original engine is now ready to take it's rightful place in the GTO. The engine that's for sale looks good, sounds good, etc. The vendor seems like a good guy.
The only thing that niggles me is that the parts are more high performance oriented, and I'm wondering if it makes sense to put it in our creampuff.
Our car requires a good vacuum to run the A/C vac control lines, the cruise control, and power disc brakes.
I don't have actual part numbers for the motor, but here are the general specs:

Built up block with Eagle rotating assembly. Edelbrock RPM round port aluminum heads with roller valve train. The camshaft is a roller version of whatever original Pontiac cam would suit this combo. Edelbrock RPM intake, Carb TBD, but not a Quadrajet. But a good one. MSD HEI ignition. It's a relatively new engine with not many miles.
We heard this thing running and it sounds sweet when driving, but the idle is a little lopey. I was on the Edelbrock website and noted that the RPM products perform best starting at 1500 RPM.

So I would have preferred a motor with the Performer D-port heads and Performer intake. But this is a good deal. About the same as 2900.00 for you guys. Just to get Edelbrock heads here, delivered, would be that alone, plus sales tax 13%. I also noted that Edelbrock doesn't have any anyways.

So can I make this work in my car or not? Seriously, I'll probably just buy this motor anyway, but it would be nice to drop it in the LeMans without farrting around with the car too much.

[i82much]

idle vacuum and rpm?

[77 TRASHCAN]

It will need different headers or exhaust manifolds, unless his come with the engine. Not sure if headers interchange from 67 to 69.

[steve25]

Sounds like a good motor and you can sell off the lack of bottom end torque making Round port heads to fund getting KRE D ports that are more like what it sounds like your driving needs require.

[grivera]

Sounds like a good deal based on parts. The seller doesn't know specs on cam? The description you provided doesn't offer enough info to indicate if too radical for street driving. Is it a stroker?

[OCMDGTO]

Sounds like a deal for the money, run it

[66sprint6]

I forgot to mention that it does come with Hooker headers. I'd put the round port exhaust manifolds on it, if they fit the '67.
The seller didn't have the exact specs for the cam, but he mentioned that it was a "Ram air 4" type cam. He didn't build the engine himself, he had a shop do it.
I'm thinking that with this engine as it sits, it would be challenging to tame it down. And we were thinking, exactly as mentioned, that we could sell the top end and use that to get some KRE's or Performer heads if neccessary. But just getting a built up short block around here could cost 5g's or more, so either way it seems like a win.

I'll say one thing, though. The sound of him driving away was intoxicating. That engine is tight. He did have power brakes in the '69 GTO, so that gave me some hope for the engine making decent vacuum.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by 66sprint6

I forgot to mention that it does come with Hooker headers. I'd put the round port exhaust manifolds on it, if they fit the '67.
The seller didn't have the exact specs for the cam, but he mentioned that it was a "Ram air 4" type cam. He didn't build the engine himself, he had a shop do it.
I'm thinking that with this engine as it sits, it would be challenging to tame it down. And we were thinking, exactly as mentioned, that we could sell the top end and use that to get some KRE's or Performer heads if neccessary. But just getting a built up short block around here could cost 5g's or more, so either way it seems like a win.

I'll say one thing, though. The sound of him driving away was intoxicating. That engine is tight. He did have power brakes in the '69 GTO, so that gave me some hope for the engine making decent vacuum.

Is it a 400 or a 400 stroked? I ask cause you mentioned the Eagle rotating assembly.

[66sprint6]

I'll have to ask if it's a stroker. We didn't get that far into the details. The seller was an older gentleman who has 5 cars and a bunch of Harley's. It seems that he doesnt do much work on them himself. He's paring down on the cars and parts, though. That's why he's selling this engine rather than just have it on a stand.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 66sprint6

I forgot to mention that it does come with Hooker headers. I'd put the round port exhaust manifolds on it, if they fit the '67.
The seller didn't have the exact specs for the cam, but he mentioned that it was a "Ram air 4" type cam. He didn't build the engine himself, he had a shop do it.
I'm thinking that with this engine as it sits, it would be challenging to tame it down. And we were thinking, exactly as mentioned, that we could sell the top end and use that to get some KRE's or Performer heads if neccessary. But just getting a built up short block around here could cost 5g's or more, so either way it seems like a win.

I'll say one thing, though. The sound of him driving away was intoxicating. That engine is tight. He did have power brakes in the '69 GTO, so that gave me some hope for the engine making decent vacuum.

If that is the case, a cam change should be all you need for what you want.

Stan

[dmac]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

If that is the case, a cam change should be all you need for what you want.

Stan

Exactly this!!!!!! Cam change would be pretty simple with engine already out. Cam/lifters for under $400 would still be a great deal, but you would still want to know whether it is stroked, but that is something you can do later. . And putting a vacuum gauge on it while it is still running in the car could tell you if you need to worry.

[66sprint6]

Got it! Traffic was brutal so it ended up being three hours each way. We'll start looking at it tomorrow. I took a cursory glance but couldn't see any part numbers on the heads or carb. I'm curious if the heads are 72cc or 87cc. The paint on the block is obscuring the casting numbers, so I'll have to do some scrapen'n. We got pretty much everything to fire it up, but I'll probably replace the sundry items like plug wires, etc. Not sure if I'll use that carb. And I'll probably spring for a nice new distributor.
That's great news about those Ram Air exhaust manifolds. Thanks for that. Funny, I was on their website but didn't see them. But that's what makes this forum so great. Lead times aside, I'm happy that they're available.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 66sprint6

Got it! Traffic was brutal so it ended up being three hours each way. We'll start looking at it tomorrow. I took a cursory glance but couldn't see any part numbers on the heads or carb. I'm curious if the heads are 72cc or 87cc. The paint on the block is obscuring the casting numbers, so I'll have to do some scrapen'n. We got pretty much everything to fire it up, but I'll probably replace the sundry items like plug wires, etc. Not sure if I'll use that carb. And I'll probably spring for a nice new distributor.
That's great news about those Ram Air exhaust manifolds. Thanks for that. Funny, I was on their website but didn't see them. But that's what makes this forum so great. Lead times aside, I'm happy that they're available.

Do you know if the present distributor has been modified / recurved?

Stan

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by 66sprint6

I took a cursory glance but couldn't see any part numbers on the heads or carb. I'm curious if the heads are 72cc or 87cc.

72cc heads (1st pic) are marked "Edelbrock Performer RPM" while 87cc (2nd pic) are marked "Edelbrock Performer".

If the intake is off, the 72cc heads will have NO exhaust crossover channel (3rd pic) while the 87cc (4th pic) have a hole drilled in the very center to supply heat to warm the intake.

Good luck!

[78w72]

for that price its a steal... E-heads would cost almost that much alone. buy it before the guy realizes what its worth. it should run fine on the street & if needed you can always change the cam with not much work.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Aftermarket 400 cranks were/are not all that common.
Stroke could be checked through a spark plug hole....
The cam could be tamed down with Rhoads lifters.
An add on vacuum reservoir can help, if needed.

Read somewhere here is last day or so, that Canada is considering opening up the border, in a month or so.....was going to post on one of your threads about this, thinking again about Len Williams.......

I'd be a buyer at that price!!!

[66sprint6]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Aftermarket 400 cranks were/are not all that common.
Stroke could be checked through a spark plug hole....
The cam could be tamed down with Rhoads lifters.
An add on vacuum reservoir can help, if needed.

Read somewhere here is last day or so, that Canada is considering opening up the border, in a month or so.....was going to post on one of your threads about this, thinking again about Len Williams.......

I'd be a buyer at that price!!!

Yes, I'm always thinking about a Len Williams engine. It seems like, for me anyway, that his is the ultimate product solution. But adding up the numbers, with the exchange, freight, and the sales tax (collected at the border), would add up to more than twice what this guy is asking. Plus, Len is currently running a six month lead time.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by 66sprint6

Yes, I'm always thinking about a Len Williams engine. It seems like, for me anyway, that his is the ultimate product solution. But adding up the numbers, with the exchange, freight, and the sales tax (collected at the border), would add up to more than twice what this guy is asking. Plus, Len is currently running a six month lead time.

I was thinking same, as you...I remember you mentioning about his lead time, somewhat due to parts situation?

Remember I have some friends (here in Oklahoma) that own a small trucking company. If a Len Williams deal was able to be struck, contact me. THey could get the engine to the border. I'd ask for favor for you.....

I'd like to think the the owner of this potential engine for you could give you the name of shop that performed the work, so you could get an idea of the parts used. But if that might involve the passage of too much time, I'd buy the engine, just to make sure someone else buys it...

[b-man]

Buy it.

Leave it alone, clearly it’s a nice running performance engine.

Buy a good torque converter that complements the engine. Perhaps for a bit extra the seller can set you up with the one he’s using now.

Enjoy.

[4zpeed]

Originally Posted by b-man

Buy it.

Leave it alone, clearly it’s a nice running performance engine.

Buy a good torque converter that complements the engine. Perhaps for a bit extra the seller can set you up with the one he’s using now.

Enjoy.

Agree, save yourself the possibility of trouble, you could be happy as is.

No point in tearing down a good engine, if it's not you, find one that is.



Frank