[James408]

I've been reading some posts on this site and others that people have lost cams after switching to synthetic oil(eg. Mobil 1)

These seem to be cams that have 5 -10 thousand miles on them. I know that the thinner Mobil 1 oils have reduced zinc. but the new Mobil 1 15w50 has approximately 1200 ppm of zinc.

Also Crane and Crower have suggested to NOT run synthetic oils with there cams even after break in. I 've read that Crane says that synthetic will keep the lifters from rotating properly because it is so slick and synthetic oil "falls off" the cam and other internal parts after sitting for a long time. This sounds lik BS to me but just wanted to get your input.

I just put Mobil 1 (silver cap) 15w50 in my 400 and I like it alot. Mobil says it is formulated with extra additives for older style valvetrains. I added a half of bottle of eos to it also for insurance.

Am I going to screw up my cam? motor has about 6000 miles on it.

[Brad B. Hillebrand]

None of the builders I have dealt with recommend it. If it were me, I would go to conventional.

[wheelspin]

I used Mobil 1 exclusively from the early 80s until 2001, when I lost a well-seasoned cam/lifter set in the GTO to the lack of zinc in the "energy saving" formulation of their 20-50. My use included a LOT of flat tappet motors: BMW m/c flat twins (including two turbos), Moto Guzzi v-twins, Desmo valve trains in Ducatis, my kids and my Jap 4s, various performance hot rods, and the family cars before roller cams became common in domestics. Synthetics have widely proven advantages over dino oils including: double the temperature operating range, increased power/mileage, and better (not worse) "hang time" in the top end for better lubrication on startup. My 40th Anniversary 1993 Corvette was delivered with Mobil 1 installed from the factory as break in oil for it's flat tappet cam.

That being said; run what you like, change it often (3,000 miles or less depending on use), use an oil filter cutter to examine the filtering media, and insure that you have suffcient ZDDP for scuff resistance for the flat tappets.

I now run 10-30 Mobil 1 in my newer cars and conventional 20-50 VR-1 + EOS in the Pontiacs.

Les

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by wheelspin

I used Mobil 1 exclusively from the early 80s until 2001, when I lost a well-seasoned cam/lifter set in the GTO to the lack of zinc in the "energy saving" formulation of their 20-50. My use included a LOT of flat tappet motors: BMW m/c flat twins (including two turbos), Moto Guzzi v-twins, Desmo valve trains in Ducatis, my kids and my Jap 4s, various performance hot rods, and the family cars before roller cams became common in domestics. Synthetics have widely proven advantages over dino oils including: double the temperature operating range, increased power/mileage, and better (not worse) "hang time" in the top end for better lubrication on startup. My 40th Anniversary 1993 Corvette was delivered with Mobil 1 installed from the factory as break in oil for it's flat tappet cam.

That being said; run what you like, change it often (3,000 miles or less depending on use), use an oil filter cutter to examine the filtering media, and insure that you have suffcient ZDDP for scuff resistance for the flat tappets.

I now run 10-30 Mobil 1 in my newer cars and conventional 20-50 VR-1 + EOS in the Pontiacs.

Les

>>>>> The 94 Vette has a fully ROLLER motor ( cam and rockers) ( also the roller lifters do not spin) Also the motors in the Vettes had "fleet oil" used at break in in the factory, then were switched to Mobil one before delivery, at the begining of the so called "owner break in period" I believe that they even reused the fleet break in oil. Many cars at the factory had brake stands done on them ( no burn outs, dont get uptight!) to load the engine for break in, I have witnessed this.
I run mobil one for 10-15K miles in daily drivers, and filter changes at 5K ( it gets dirty as has been mentioned, but doesnt break down.
Shell Rotella T "fleet" oil in the flat tappet cars, only change the oil once a year at most anyway in a weekend type car.

[gtofreek]

You run synthetic then add EOS? Why run synthetic if your going to add additives anyway? At any rate, Brad Penn motor oil has lots of zinc and sulphur in it for scuff protection. Since it is designed mainly for racing, it is not subject to EPA rules and regulations. We sell Brad Penn if you can't find it in your area. BTW, we never run synthetics. Never have, never will!

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

... We sell Brad Penn...

Paul- All of Brad Penn's oils except straight 50 and Nitro 70 are labelled "partial synthetic". Any idea what percentage synthetic?

[Hillard]

I've used AmsOil synthetic exclusively for years.....not one failure. If it ever happens I might change my mind but until then......

[george kujanski]

I use Mobil 1 in everything i have...no cam issues on anything.

I think proper positioning of the cam lobe relative to the lifter and proper lifter clearance to enable lifter rotation is more important than the concentration of zinc in the oil.

If the lifter does not rotate properly, I don't think aany kind of oil will save the cam/lifter.

george

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

I use Mobil 1 in everything i have...no cam issues on anything.

I think proper positioning of the cam lobe relative to the lifter and proper lifter clearance to enable lifter rotation is more important than the concentration of zinc in the oil.

If the lifter does not rotate properly, I don't think aany kind of oil will save the cam/lifter.

george

The problem George is that the lifter won't spin on the opening and closing ramps of the lobe, it scuffs, and only rotates a little at the very top of the lobe. If you don't believe me, watch a lifter with the valve train all hooked up through an entire revolution of the cam. You will see what I'm talking about. This is also why the wear pattern on the cam lobe is never even all the way around. It gets wide on the opening and closing ramps because of the scuffing. This scuffing is what trashes a cam. This is why we are developing and almost ready to get to market our "Koerner Flat Roller Lifters". The base of the lifter spins seperately from the body. It always spins around the entire lobe so it doesn't scuff the lobe. It leaves an even width wear band all the way around the lobe. We tested these lifters on a plain old Iron cam core with solid roller cam valve springs with pressures of 220 lbs. on the seat and 550 lbs. open in a big block Chevy spinning at 7500 rpm and with regular old store brand motor oil with no additives, without hurting the cam or lifters at all. With a regular flat lifter, the cam would have been trashed at 350-400 lbs open pressure. So, what I'm getting at is the fact that cam failures occur because of the scuffing that goes on when the lifter is rising. This is why anti-scuff additives like zinc are so important. You can check out our lifters at our website if your interested.

Also, someone keeps bringing up the fact that the new Corvettes come with Mobil One in them. What they don't mention is the fact that these engines have roller cams and are designed for synthetic oils. Old Pontiacs were not so it's just not a good comparison.

[Overkillphil]

Been running Mobil 1 (10w-30) in my 72 Formula, Buick GN's and all my vehicles owned since the mid 80's with the exception of my Powerstroke Diesels which use Rotella 15w-40.

No cam (or any wear for that matter) issues or increased leakage with Mobil 1 after 20+ years.

These cam failures wreak of the "Made in China" phenomenon.

[wheelspin]

Phil,

I think that you are correct in suggesting that there have been some suspect parts involved, although in my case I had a new (10 yrs. old) Crane cam with Rhoads lifters (arguably, the best/strongest lifters available) fail, which lead me to believe that the lack of ZDDP was the most likely cause.

Les

[smagnotti]

Mobil 1 kept my crappy 1980s caddiy 4.1 alive thru many overheating sessions(besides the idoit light they have a alarm and light that tells you to turn off the motor above and beyond the idoit light.I could not ask for better!

[Z Code 400]

Les,

Wouldn't the addition of a petroleum based, metallic anti-wear additive, such as EOS, negate many of the beneficial properties of synthetic lubricants???...Robert

[wheelspin]

I don't use EOS in full syn oil; however, using between .5 and .66 ounce per each syn quart to bring a low/no ZDDP to 100ppm would be of little consequence, except for cats. Mobil 1 MX4T 10W40 (air cooled motors) has the highest ZDDP content of any packaged oil and is also a full synthetic blend.

Les

[Pontirag]

what about mixing say three qts of Mobile 1 and two qts of Rotella. I never had a problem with mobile one in my cars but as an aircraft mechanic I saw horrible devastation to very very expensive aircraft engines. Especially lifters. Funny thing was (if it can be called funny) is that it did not start to occure when mobile first came out or when they reduced the content of some additives. Lifter failure occured when lifter manufacturers changed the source of the cast iron they used in the manufacture of lifters. Did you also know that there are like only three lifter manufacturers in the US and they produce all the lifters used both corporate and aftermarket. They all lowered thier qc standards about the same time in order to be competative. Thus th nicle diofference in cost to the manufacturer is past on to the customer where the cost rises to hundreds of dollars. Our society teaches us lack of consideration and that it is not just all about the buck but its only about the buck.

[Brad B. Hillebrand]

I would be interested in seeing what the builders on this site have to say. And if they don't like synthetic then why?

[Dick Boneske]

I've used Amsoil and Mobil I in everything I drive, including my lawn tractor, push mower, and snow blower. I've never had an engine failure or cam failure since my '57 Olds, which was long before anyone sold synthetics. Synthetics in small engines really work well in terms of low consumption, more power, less maintenance, etc.

Isn't it puzzling that some builders and experts proclaim that synthetics are no good when so many of us use it with success.

One thing is very consistent and makes no sense. If an engine fails with conventional oil, it's due to a mechanical failure. If an engine fails with synthetic oil, it's the oil's fault. Where is the logic in that? Anyone know of a jet engine that DOES NOT use synthetic oil? Do the naysayers think that Chevrolet ships Corvettes with synthetic oil due to pressure from the evil oil companies--or do they do it because it is a superior lubricant?

[Overkillphil]

The synthetics (at least the ones I have used) are fully compatible with conventional oils.

I value the engine builders opinions regarding synthetics but it would be easier to swallow if they followed the recommendation with a reason or explanation as to why they don't recommend them. On second thought, it appears Brad already asked this question.

[fastgto]

A little off topic but still an engine. In my new Harley Davidson they recommend and use synthetic oil.

[Ken -Ace- Brewer]

Funny thing about Mobil 1. They are in court right now. Because they are NOT a 100% synthetic oil! LOL!! Mobil 1 is grade 3. TRUE synthetic is grade 4-5. LOL!!!

Be Cool,
Ace