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#1
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Budget beaters
I really wish this had it's own section but hopefully it sticks here.
Don’t get me wrong I appreciate all the big dollar race cars, the correct restos, the pro touring types, and the car show crowd. But there doesn’t seem to be a forum for guys like me trying to get their beater going on a microscopic budget. Ask a question in the race forum and it turns to throwing money at it. Nothing against those guys but I’m looking for a cheap slow bracket car. Ask a question about modifying a part or fabbing something up in the 61-66 section and it’s crickets. The street section is ok but it’s still guys with a bunch more budget than I have building on stuff. I know a user tried to get a bracket forum for his budget build but was told there were enough sections already so I’m hoping this thread can be the place where the low budget doing it at home in the driveway guys can share ideas and see what works and maybe get some real world input. My Catalina is a trashed, bashed, and zip tied mismatch of parts I had laying around, and unfortunately it’s the best I can do on my budget. I learned a few things like second gen F body headers will fit, 10.5 slicks can be stuffed under it, and soon I’ll have a better idea if a ‘66 Impala rear can be modified to fit so I’m not stuck waiting for over priced 3.55’s to be made available again. |
#2
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I've tried a few times ask about budget builds but many (most) of these folks have tens of thousands into their cars and don't remember what a budget was.
I loved when some of these guys told about the builds they slapped together in the garage but it doesn't happen anymore. I'm presently thinking of a budget build but... Last edited by F ROCK; 08-24-2019 at 06:47 PM. |
#3
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What are your goals? That's where you need to start and then prioritize all the steps to get there as well as budget for said steps... No sense in making more power if the chassis cant handle it for example... I'm willing to offer advice where I can.. |
#4
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I don't know. Often I feel like I am part of the "budget" crowd since mine's a daily driver and I never have much time of funds for the car. That said, this isn't the 1980s any more and running one of these cars is more than a little commitment. Time was that you could cut a lot of corners but I've noticed that people just don't tolerate cars behaving badly like they used to. I was at the mall and had a very small carb fire from some combination of ignition timing and latent heat. The security guard had ZERO patience or humour about it. Wouldn't let me touch the car in his parking garage. Forced me to have it towed out before I could touch it. Modern cars are so reliable that people see you pop the hood and the immediately assume that something awful has happened and you need help. So I guess I understand why there's a bunch of collectors and high dollar restorers on the forum. God bless them, there's still plenty of friendly and knowledgeable old timers. But it's true that often the band aid is not the fix you want.
Good luck with the thread. Sam
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-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod |
#5
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the first rendition of my race car it had a used 455 with stock rods/TRW forged pistons, used Ultradyne 255/263 at 0.050" solid flat tappet cam/lifters, Torker II, Holley 750 DP used,used headers, home built TH400, stock leafs with slapper bars etc. Had $3500 total in the car and went 11.4 reliably. I would consider that as budget as you could get for the 1/4 times. I appreciate what you are talking about and if you are on a budget, you need to be satisfied what you can do regardless of what times you are pulling. It's all about the fun and thrill of racing.
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
#6
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"No replacement for displacement!" GTOAA--https://www.gtoaa.org/ |
#7
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"...I’m looking for a cheap slow bracket car..."
Every bracket car I ever built was low budget. Back in '08 I bought a '74 Ventura bracket car. It was similar to those that I'd built, and was also low budget. Even had a Chevy 8.2 rear end. Ran 7.30's on our 1/8 mile track. I'm an old retired guy, with very little to spend on racing. I'm in the process of building a super low budget bracket car, out of an '80 Bird I bought, & a 455/TH400 that I already had. I started a thread about my build. Thought it was going OK, for awhile. Then the race guys began badmouthing it & telling me how dangerous everything was & how it would never pass tech, & makin jokes among themselves about it. And if you say anything about it, they'll say you're thin skinned & get "butt-hurt" too easily. So, from experience, I don't recommend that you start a thread about it here. Some of these guys badmouth & argue with each other, in threads, much less anybody who knows less than them. And they'll recommend that you not use any low buck shortcuts, at all. I assume that their attitude is "If you can't afford the higher priced parts, don't build it", or "If it won't go quick, why build it ?", etc, etc. There are also some good guys here who will try to help you. But, I think some of 'em try to stay out of the discussion, once the bad boys take over the thread. I personally will be happy to share everything I've learned about bracket racing, in the slower no-electronics brackets. I'm not the best racer ever. But, my wife & I won LOTS of races in low buck Pontiacs. And I'd be happy to share my experiences with you, by Email. If interested in my opinions, you can PM me & I'll give you my Email address. Anyhow, GOOD LUCK with your build ! |
#8
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I’m back into cars after a 7-8 year hiatus. Single income family with a 9 year old. Literally no budget for car habit but I did buy a clean rust free 76 ventura cheap, we’re doing a super budget 350, hyd cam 092 heads .free TH350, free 12 inch stall , hand me down 342s,, etc. it will be fun just to be back behind the wheel. Is it gonna run my high 10s I’ve dreamed of since high school? NO. Fun with my car buddies that I’ve been missing for years? YES!
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GOD does business with people that mean business! |
#9
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This is something that has, unfortunately, disappeared from the hobby. Everyone expects perfection these days and I blame the internet for that. But the real fun in this hobby is building something yourself with what YOU can afford and be comfortable with and actually drive and enjoy it without worrying about every little detail being perfect.
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68 GTO,3860# Stock Original 400/M-20 Muncie,3.55’s 13.86 @ 100 Old combo: 462 10.75 CR,,SD 330CFM Round Port E's,Old Faithful cam,Jim Hand Continental,3.42's. 1968 Pontiac GTO : 11.114 @ 120.130 MPH New combo: 517 MR-1,10.8 CR,SD 350CFM E's,QFT 950/Northwind,246/252 HR,9.5” 4000 stall,3.42's 636HP/654TQ 1.452 10.603 @ 125.09 http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-GTO...lip-31594.html |
#10
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I bought a 76 ventura years ago that had a TA 403 in it. Had a rod-knock and I got it super cheap. The car originally came w/ a small cube olds engine. The TA 403 was a drop in. I sold if for nothing. Would have made a great low buck drag car. Those ventura's are great looking cars, IMHO. |
#11
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__________________
GOD does business with people that mean business! |
#12
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Nice car. A good one to start with, even on a literal "zero" budget. Been there, done that. You look for parts and such at swap meets. Keep your ear to the ground about folks with Pontiac parts. You will need a transmission likely also... A low compression 400 out of the last couple years of Trans Am's would be something to look for. There's tons of them still around, and not all that expensive.
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1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... |
#13
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I do not want to discount the efforts that go into high end builds. I enjoy high end builds, but have had a blast over the years putting together “econo” builds. A couple had turbo chargers scavenged from another engine, some had good sized solid and hydrualic cams, second hand roller cams or DIY ported heads. Have done our share of engine’s with oem cast pistons and cylinder taper that any competent machinist would call shot. Sometimes if you build it right with well chosen parts you can embarrass higher end cars. I am always game too re live the good old days and help someone do a budget build.
Safety equipment is a totally different deal. When the car becomes to fast to meet a certain safety spec, time to step up and put money in it or slow it down. Got to get there first though. |
#14
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This is the end of the hobby spectrum I play in. Sometimes it comes from too many expensive hobbies, or comes from a sense of responsibility to family and not blowing through tons of $$$.
I have spent a few thousand on each engine in my 2 cars, and a few thousand more on other driveline parts (trans, rear end, etc). I have done all my own work, and my cars look like primered up beaters. But they run nice. A good running ride gives me more satisfaction than a finely polished show car. And I don't have to panic about scratches, etc. It makes for a much less stressful hobby experience. Do what you gotta do to get your kicks!
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"...ridge reamer and ring compressor? Do they have tools like that?" |
#15
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I expect you know that the front suspension is the same as '70 - '81 Camaro/Firebird? My Nova had a TA WS6 steering box, WS6 front springs with about 3/4 coil trimmed, a TA swaybar, Koni shocks and IROC wheels with 225/50-16 tires. Best handling Nova around. I think some of the resistance to doing budget builds these days comes from the relative scarcity of Pontiac engines. Good block castings are nearly impossible to find around here now. no one wants to see you take a ridge reamer and ball hone to on of the few good blocks that are left, polish the crank with some emery cloth and reuse stock rods because if it blows up it's so hard to replace. Back in the "good old days" we'd just go down to the junk yard or take a look at the "Little Nickel" ads and buy another 400 block for cheap. To be clear, I'm not saying don't do it. In fact, I say go for it. But, I can understand why some people don't want to see that happen.
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---------------------------- '72 Formula 400 Lucerne Blue, Blue Deluxe interior - My first car! '73 Firebird 350/4-speed Black on Black, mix & match. |
#16
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Its been fun helping Gus wrangle up leftover stuff amongst his buddies. His Ventura has the 260, 200metric and 7.5 rear so it all must go. I have a low mileage 74 350P and two different sets of 389 heads (one pocket ported set of 65 heads that have new guides and screw in studs I got for free or my pull off 54k mile 66 092 heads off our Starchief but they are stock.. and a AFB intake to donate. 65 AFB intake is going to get plenum mods and a spacer adapter to a 3310 Holley. The 389 heads should get it to 9.5:1 or so. Its a 20 cc reduction of the chamber. We got BOP Th350's that are running pull outs and high stall 3000-3500 converters , used headers and even already got the donor 8.5 rear to build and it was only $50. Hoping to get some 13's in the 1/4 out of junk 350 /389 parts , a 557 crap 400 is also available so it may get some inspection to see what it really needs if it is re-ring capable at home barring anything bad. 350 (or 400) will get a thumpy tight LSA cam too.
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63 Catalina coupe 467 cid budget drag car 11's 1/4 , 7.3 1/8th pump gas n/a 66 Star Chief Executive 57k mile 69 Le Mans 2 dr HT 350 85k mile 15 sec 1/4 69 Firebird 400 Burgandy/Black 70 Olds Rallye 350 F85 4 speed 3.91's 70 Olds Cutlass Cruiser Red Wagon 350 101k miles 15 sec 1/4 12 sec w 455 74 Cheyenne Super C10 LWB Gen 6 454 w ZZ502 cam 3.07gear 13.1 1/4, 8.3 1/8 2020 RAM 1500 SLT 4x4 5.7 A8 Hemi 2007 Hummer H3 3.7 liter turd 2019 Chevy Spark petrol car 38 mpg |
#17
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Mine started as a budget beater, 12.20's with a stock 455 bottom end with a cam and intake, after 19 years it looks like a beater paint wise, ( body is real clean it was a texas car) but the drive line keeps getting updates. I welded, and turned every nut and bolt myself. Had to build headers to fit had a good starting point but had to modify them. It is now a turbo charged car making good power so that's why the drive line was updated. You can find weak links in the budgets cars fast when the power level goes up. That is what I love though. I bought, traded. learned from friends, trial and error on parts and have a lot of good memories with the car. Some not so good but were learning experiences.
I love sleepers and beaters, it's reality for us poor guys!! |
#18
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Mine started as a budget till the body came off the frame
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#19
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I was just watching the disgustang episodes of roadkill garage tonight and kinda wish I had left the body alone. I now have a 10K motor sitting next to a hulk of a car with no front clip, no window, no wiring etc
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#20
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When it comes to budget builds there’s a few different directions you can go, depending on what you need the car to do. Just because you’re on a budget doesn’t mean you can’t purchase higher end parts or even that you have to cut corners. Often though, the trade off is time.
There’s nothing wrong with almost any approach but as long as you understand limitations you can generally get the car going on a budget and have fun with it. In my situation I wasn’t really willing to cut corners after I had to fix a lot of the previous owners garbage. As a result of that it took a literal 16 years to get my bird on the road and I’ve been adding to that build where I can since then. Most people don’t believe me when I tell them I only have about 23k into my car, including it’s purchase price. But if you’re methodical, shop around and have patience, the car doesn’t have to look and feel like you built it on a budget. At the end of the day though, it’s all about having fun. If you’re not having fun doing this, then do t waste the time or money!
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
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