[Bill Eveland]

Hi guys, I just picked this up off e-bay. It's for a 55-60 engine only, mostly used to put an early engine into just about anything using biscuit mounts on the ends. A differant mount is for 61-68 I believe but i've yet to see a picture of one. It's supposed to be quite a bit differant.

Is there a chance a 60 timing cover would fit on my 66 389? I would have it machined for the newer seal per Bill Hanlons article also.

http://pontiacsafari.com/L1Garage/FrontSealUpgrade.pdf

I think all else I need is the front mount metal bracket used on 55-58 engines.
I know Pontiac Jack has used one, any other input Jack? There was some discussion in another thread about putting a Pontiac in a 55-6-7 chevy.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ht=hurst+mount

Thanks, Bill

[Bill Hanlon]

The two slotted holes are for mounting to the frame and the two holes at the bottom center are for attaching the early motor mount, but what are the other two holes for?

[Bill Eveland]

I thought Pontiac Jack mentioned there was a metal bracket that needs to be used from the original mount. From the 45* on the bottom of the timing cover that bolted to the mount holes.
The bottom 2 holes are spaced 1 3/4" apart on the Hurst mount, on my 55 frame the front mount holes are 2 3/4" center to center.

I was thinking of using the 60 cover only due to keeping away from the reverse cooling set up. Unless another early cover (55-59) could be used and not be set up as reverse cooling. This isn't supposed to be used on an aluminum cover.

[Jack Gifford]

Bill Hanlon- the two "tabs" with holes on the Hurst mount go under a pair of timing cover bolts. The driver's-side tab is shaped to wrap around the fuel pump.

Bill Eveland- Nice 'score' on the Hurst mount! I don't know any reason why a '60 timing cover couldn't be used on a '60 engine, but maybe someone will correct me.
The early Pontiac front mount bracket in the first picture is needed to bolt the bottom of the Hurst mount to the angled face (53`?) of the timing cover (holes in this one are ugly from someone torching the bolts out).

(Bill Hanlon- is this the bracket I sent to you, or did you get the mangled one?)

As for mounting to the car's frame, Hurst made a whole variety of adaptors for different frames (all used with the same basic mount on the engine). The second picture is the Hurst '55-57 Chev frame brackets that I used (sorry for the mis-focus), the one on the left showing the '32-48 Ford mount "biscuits" they were designed to use. I always liked these Ford pieces, since you can vary the preload on the rubber (cotter key retention of the nut position). The picture sort of hides the full shape of these brackets- each of them actually uses four bolts to the front crossmember and they are very sturdy.

[Bill Eveland]

I suppose that bracket isn't an extra Jack? Or anyone that has one lying around I need one.
I was trying to put the 60 cover on a 66 engine, not a 60 engine.

[Bill Hanlon]

Jack:
If I heard you correctly, bolts are sent through the tabs, through the bottom hole on each side of the timing cover and then into the block. The only place there is rubber is at the slotted end of the mount, where it would normally attach to the frame.

Jack again:
I got your mangled bracket, but I heated it up and straightened the tabs where they attach to the bottom of the timing cover (45 degrees), threw some paint on and am now using it.

Jack again again:
Measure the center to center distance of the holes on the bottom of the front GMC mount Santa brought you a few years ago. See if they match the holes Bill has on his mount.

Bill:
I have the bracket that was removed from my '57 GMC. The passenger side ear was broken completely off. I used the "new" one from Jack on my truck and later had my old one welded back together while bolted to a timing cover for proper alignment. Same part number (518695) for GMC V8 trucks and 55-58 Pontiac. If you get real desparate and will settle for one that had been welded, the least I can do is offer it to you for what Jack let me have his.

[Jack Gifford]

Bill Hanlon- yes, the Hurst mount system only uses rubber at the far ends, to the frame brackets. The bottom holes in the Hurst mount are on 1 11/16" centers, to match the Pontiac bracket.

Bill Eveland- let's say that I'm "not in a hurry" to part with that bracket, only because I've got most of another '58 engine that's "looking for a home" and could possibly use a front mount. If you don't find one, I'll bet Steve Barcak would have one in his Pontiac salvage yard.
(Sorry for not catching my own typo- I meant to type '66 engine).

[Bill Eveland]

Thanks for the offer on the lower bracket Bill. I'm going to do some searching for a 60 cover and get back to you if I'll need your bracket.

[Safari Larry]

Bill Eveland, I don't think 60 front cover will work on any later (or earlier) engine. Attached are photos of '60 block and front cover. Comparing with illustration in '61 shop manual (attached Figure 6-44), it is apparent that the '60 front cover won't work on the 61 block. I believe the '60 front cover can be used ONLY on the '60 block.

[Steve Barcak]

Larry,
I will have to disagree with your manual. I have just looked at no less than a dozen Pontiac blocks from '61-'66 ( 326, 389 and a 421 ) and they all look compatable to use a '60 style cover. That is saying they do not look like the one in your post.
I say the manual is incorrect. This would not be the first time. I have never trusted books as a final say. I have never seen a book, including Pontiac books, without at least 1 misprint.
Your photos are understandable about the extra water opening in the '60 cover. You '61 manual show the block casting different but, my engines here show otherwise.
I realize you are trying to help and shed some light and I am not differing with you, just saying the manual is wrong.

Bill, it would be wisest to check your own block. Perhaps Some blocks were cast different than all the ones I just looked at.

[Bill Eveland]

Thanks guys, I don't remember the upper 2 bolt holes in the block on Larry's last pic. It's been so long since I put it together. I'll do my own checking to see if it will work.

I suppose if the cover would work than I would block off the front of the intake to timing cover hole and put a freeze plug on the back of the timing cover of there wasn't enough block there to hold the gasket where the other top hole is at? Than run my bypass hose off the timing cover or I won't be running any heater for now, could I just block that off as well?

Steve do you have a 60 cover and a 55-58 mount bracket available if it will work? I can pm you if you would like instead. I wish I had your parts availability than I could figure out brackets and what water pump pulley I need also. At least staying with the 66 389 it has the same shorter crank snout as the earlier 389's. A 400/455 would have a 1/4" longer snout and even harder to figure pulleys on.

Even if I don't use the Hurst mount for now, I would like to get the 60 cover on my 66 389 and run the stock 55-58 front mount. Than do away with my side mounts I built , i'm not the fondest on how they turned out and and the 60 cover would look more correct with the front mount anyway.

[Steve Barcak]

I have currently have hundreds, and have seen thousands, of Pontiac blocks and I have never seen one with those 2 extra holes, never.
Bill, yes, I should have a t cover and mount and whatever elase you may need here at Pontiac Heaven. Just look at your block to see if it is machined flat where needed. I bet it is. If so, the '60 cover will bolt right on.

[Safari Larry]

Steve is correct, the figure in the 61 manual showing front of block is apparently bogus. I skimmed through the 61 manual looking for additional photos and found attached figure which is not the same. The attached figure from the same manual shows the front cover gasket on the engine block and it looks the same as my 60 photo. I checked with www.rockauto.com and the 60 & 61 cover gasket is the same. Sorry for the confusion.

Bill, I would be cautious about blocking the bypass from intake to front cover. That connection allows circulation through the engine prior to thermostat opening -- thus allowing the thermostat to sense correct engine water temperature. Without that bypass, there would be very little flow up into the intake and it would seem that the engine would need to get quite hot before the thermostat opened. Also, without that bypass, the water pump will be pumping into a closed system -- I don't know if that would be problematic. All you need is a water hose from the intake manifold to the '60 front cover to implement the bypass.

[Pontirag]

Ansen also made those mounts. The were available right up until ansen either went out of business or was sold. Ansen also made explosion proof scatter shields, (bell Housings). They were available up until the late 80's.

[Bill Eveland]

I agree Larry, that would replace the connection between the the present cover and the front of the intake. I'm not too famaliar with 60 cooling systems. Do they also use the nipple in the passenger head ? I have that blocked off right now as well.

[Poncho60]

Bill--

I have a 60 timing cover that was all sandblasted, deburred, etc. I had our machine shop at work machine it out for the late style front crank seal. I hate to use the word mistake, but a machining error was made. I believe that the cover would still work fine and not leak with the new seal. Just thought I'd mention this--I hate to see the cover just sitting around if someone might have a use for it. I can send pics that show the details if you have any interest.

Poncho60

[Safari Larry]

I really don't know much about stock '60 configuration with nipples on front of heads. A nipple on the front of either head is just a source for hot water. My '60 engine is in a '56 Pontiac and the engine has 57 heads and intake manifold. I had the choice of using either the 57 or 60 intake manifold and chose the 57 to present a more stock appearance in the 56 Pontiac (generator mounted on intake manifold). I'm using a nipple on the drivers side head to provide water for the heater. See attached. I used one of the water connections on the 57 intake manifold for water recirculation hose, the hose running from intake to front cover. That left no place to connect to the heater so I used a nipple, I think from the '60 engine (or it may have been the nipple on 56 driver's side head rear that connects to the trans heat exchanger).

[Jack Gifford]

Bill Eveland- for whatever it's worth- I don't know how well the Hurst mount will work all by itself to react all driveline torque (max engine torque x max trans ratio) to the frame. When I used the Hurst in my '57 Chevs, I ran Hydramatics with frame mounts (w/rubber) on the rear bellhousing half. So I had four mounts to hold the engine/trans against driveline torque. Maybe somebody will chime in here with other experiences with the Hurst mount?

[Bill Eveland]

I was thinking I would reuse the original trans crossmember and tie into with something like these to bolt to the vertical mounting bolts of the trans, or build something off the frame if the crossmember won't work. I got this pic from a Hurst thread over on the Hamb.

[badlefthand]

Bil, I have a hurst front mount and tried it on my 60 389,Mine would not clear the two lower ears that come off of 60 timing chain cover so I ground to fit ,next mount would not clear fuel pump,so electric would be required, The mount hole on fuel pump side would not fit snug to cover, It was already ground off some.My hurst mount looks exactly like yours but you know they are not very precise. My 60 pontiac is ging into a 47 Ford coupe so I stuffed the hurst under the bench and made my own mounts. Hope yours fits better .Good Luck