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#1
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When is a Pontiac, not a Pontiac anymore ??
... I'm curious to hear/read what others feel about when does a Pontiac stop being a Pontiac ?? ...
... we all have our own opinions, but I think it could be useful/interesting information concerning not just cylinder head design, but block design also ?? ... ... what do you guys think ?? ... |
#2
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I feel if it retains the front timing cover (Or a modified version w/ a more modern water pump) and a reasonable facsimile of the lifter valley cover.....it's a Pontiac.
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#3
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It will always be a Pontiac..... Just call it an after market Pontiac if its got the good stuff on it?
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My Half AN Injun..... |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to charlie66 For This Useful Post: | ||
#4
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Quote:
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... I tend to think that Bore-Space is the key to it still being a Pontiac, imo, as there have been a multitude of cylinder heads designed by Pontiac (SOHC, Hemi, RA-V, etc.) over the years, different deck height blocks, bore & stroke obviously has changed, reverse cooling, EFI, valve angles too, but as far as I know the bore-space has remained ... ... I don't know of any significant changes to the lifter/cam area, but maybe I'm wrong ... |
#5
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if you can move the bore space a slight bit within the same block dimensions with same main spacing and an old d port head bolts on its a pontiac. I went to a machine shop and they had a windowed top fuel block with old 440 heads on it on display lol. It was still a mopar to me!
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#6
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Quote:
Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#7
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If it doesn't use the HT-951 lifters & real Pontiac heads will bolt on the block it is a Pontiac. It is no longer a Pontiac if it has a chevy , olds or buick engine in it. When GM started using all the other engines from the other divisions then Pontiacs no longer were Pontiacs. But this is not smart question as the answer is in its self. A Pontiac is no longer a Pontiac when it no longer has a Pontiac engine in it. Plain & simple. If Pontiac developed it & used it then it's a Pontiac engine. If not then it belongs to another division then it's not a Pontiac engine which makes it something other then a real Pontiac. Plain & simple.
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#8
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But look at the total package. If it's got a mustang style front end and a 9 inch, mine as well be an SCJ. So who is crossing over the line?
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Bull Nose Formula-461, 6x-4, Q-jet, HEI, TH400, 8.5 3.08, superslowjunk |
#9
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When I design my brake stuff one of the criteria is to see if an existing design will work suitably. Factors like inventory and engineering cost play a big part. GM of course does the same but at a dozen magnitudes greater, and viewing this from a manufacturer's viewpoint the constant whinging about powerplants is getting infantile. Stratostreak engine finished up in 1981 Pontiac was axed in 2009 We should be grateful that guys like Kaufmann, Butler, Edelbrock and other step up and make stuff for a 2nd tier brand like ours, obsolete as it is. Last edited by Scarebird; 12-29-2013 at 01:10 PM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Scarebird For This Useful Post: | ||
#10
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We all get better with age because of are experiences . So does this mean we are not that person anymore , or are we just evolved . So I think if were still buying Pontiac parts for it, its still a Pontiac . So what if they look different. That's the price you pay for making something better.. I still call my mother my mother . And she looks a lot different now then when I was 10... Ok ill stop now. This getting a little out of hand.. Lol! I hope you get what im trying to say........ Im sure I'm going to get ranked on for this one. Lol...
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My Half AN Injun..... Last edited by charlie66; 12-28-2013 at 05:04 PM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to charlie66 For This Useful Post: | ||
#11
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... so what's the opinion on lifter-bore design/placement and cam tunnel design changes ?? ... as in moved lifter bores, size options, cam journal design changes ?? ...
... Pontiac or not Pontiac ?? ... |
#12
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If it is OK to move cam lobes around to change the firing order then anything inside of the block to do with the cam for me is fair game. Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#13
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a modified pontiac is still a pontiac in my opinion, if pontiac heads bolt on its a pontiac,
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-Rob 67 LE MANS in pieces... 68 gto 84 grand prix twin turbo 496 pontiac 25.3 cage |
#14
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I remember seeing "PMD" on some older Pontiacs, which stood for Pontiac MOTOR Division.
Of course, it could no longer be a "motor" division of GM after 1981, so it effectively became the Pontiac Design Division of GM. Regardless of era, the Pontiac version of whatever GM allowed them to produce was always more attractive than the Chevy version. That said, I prefer for PMD-era Pontiacs to STILL be powered by Pontiac (exceptions being for F-bodies that came with 403 Olds from the factory, I give them a waiver).
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'73 T/A (clone). Low budget stock headed 8.3:1 455, 222/242 116lsa .443/.435 cam. FAST Sportsman EFI, 315rwhp/385rwtq on 87 octane. 13.12 @103.2, 1.91 60'. '67 Firebird [sold], ; 11.27 @ 119.61, 7.167 @ 96.07, with UD 280/280 (108LSA/ 109 ICL)solid cam. [1.537, 7.233 @93.61, 11.46 @ 115.4 w/ old UD 288/296 108 hydraulic cam] Feb '05 HPP, home-ported "16" D-ports, dished pistons (pump gas only), 3.42 gears, 275/60 DR's, 750DP, T2, full exhaust |
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#15
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My first knee jerk answer would be, anything beyond a round port E-head should have a Modified in front of PMD. On second thought, the RA-V opens up the door to all the cylinder head SciFi Madness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCM6TZgTMI
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Bull Nose Formula-461, 6x-4, Q-jet, HEI, TH400, 8.5 3.08, superslowjunk |
#16
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I saw Bert Straus's Pontiac Pro Stock Astre "Chief Chilly Willy" at Englishtown in 1974 where it qualified very well. It had Pontiac iron heads on it but the ports were somewhere else. But at the time everyone still called it a Pontiac.
Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#17
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If factory heads will bolt onto the block I'm good ... until a 4.90" bore spacing block is available.
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#18
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Yes - IA II and MR1 Blocks - pure Pontiac - which are run in this 7 sec. GTO & 7 sec. GXP
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The Bandit Rules - Make mine with a SD-455 Engine . |
#19
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1982
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3 Generations of "Beach Boys Racing" ! Everybody knows somthin. Nobody knows everything ! 1st time on a dragstrip, 1964. Flagstart ! "Thanks for the entertainment." "Real Indians Don't Wear Bowties" |
#20
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"I still have my Great Grandfathers shovel. Its had 5 new handles and 2 new heads, but its still his".
In racing every part is modified or massaged, as long as you're not putting a BBC or other brand motor in it you're good with me. |
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