[intense]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-...f762c6d8#v4-38

[muscle_collector]

nicely optioned ra4. i wander what reserve is on it?

[roundportponchos]

I think this was in Hemmings recently,,, cool car

[Cammer-6]

if I see another air cleaner decal Im gonna ......
nice car,too bad its now at the point of no return.

[2manyponchos]

Originally Posted by Cammer-6

if I see another air cleaner decal Im gonna ......
nice car,too bad its now at the point of no return.

Good thing you weren't at the Mecum Indy auction.

[TH65]

I looked at this RAIV Firebird yesterday, it belongs to a friend locally, as it sits its a nice running driver car but does need a restoration if a buyer wants to bring it back to RAIV status. It has had quarter panels put on it. The owner was contacted by someone who know a possible race history on it. Owner was asked to check for yellow paint under the black and also for 2 holes on firewall that previously had an ingnition box on it, both the yellow paint and the 2 holes are there plus the obvious frame connectors. Owner was told car had some rear wheelwell flares on it when raced and was painted red & yellow, probably explains why the quarters were replaced. The owner is still investigated this possible race history.

[muscle_collector]

how much is he wanting to get out of it?

[East]

In the engine picture, the battery and windshield washer bottle is reversed. The bracket holding the fan shroud is different with the fan shroud looking different too.

I wished that my car looked that good - inside and out.

[74SDformula]

Originally Posted by TH65

I looked at this RAIV Firebird yesterday, it belongs to a friend locally, as it sits its a nice running driver car but does need a restoration if a buyer wants to bring it back to RAIV status. It has had quarter panels put on it. The owner was contacted by someone who know a possible race history on it. Owner was asked to check for yellow paint under the black and also for 2 holes on firewall that previously had an ingnition box on it, both the yellow paint and the 2 holes are there plus the obvious frame connectors. Owner was told car had some rear wheelwell flares on it when raced and was painted red & yellow, probably explains why the quarters were replaced. The owner is still investigated this possible race history.

Any more info on the possible race history?

[muscle_collector]

if this is the auto ra4 that i am remembering, when did it regain its original engine?

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by Cammer-6

if I see another air cleaner decal Im gonna ......
nice car,too bad its now at the point of no return.

A quote like this is what keeps pontiac values DOWN. you wont hear a yenko guy say stuff like this in the forums. No, they pump eachother up not tear eachother down.

Why would this car now be at the point of no return??

Thats rediculous.

I have seen yenko cars that were tubbed, rollcaged with 12 pt cages, aluminum floors, Glass noses, not an original nut or bolt on the car come back and bring rediculous money on the auction block. Every bit of carnage was documented for the new buyer to see how far gone the car was to start with but it brought killer money.



Same with Hemi cars.

Pontiac guys are thier own worst enemy sometimes.


I am not just saying its cammer alone either its the whole Pontiac Hobby mindset.

The chevy ford and Mopar guys sit around and laugh about it.

[turbo69bird]

The parts for these cars are avalaible and with so few around to choose from theres no reason this car wouldnt be worth bringing back even with an SR block not a restamp like the rest of the faking Liars ( Yes mark I am talking to you) out there. LOL

At least if its A SR you know it was a legit RAIV block to start with and you know the seller is straight up no guessing games.

Sub frame connectors are no big deal to remove, 1/4 panels replaced with NOS and a really good body man solves that issue too.

Wonder if it has the original 3.90 rear still?

Really nice piece, If I wanted a another rare car I couldnt use for Anything, Id be all over this, but Rare stuff just doesn't appeal to me as much anymore.

It does remind me of the Towne Pontiac RAIV race car though.

It will be interesting to see what it brings, Especially with all the overseas money being worth so much. This car marketed properly, could bring well into 6 figures as she sits.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

It will be interesting to see what it brings, Especially with all the overseas money being worth so much. This car marketed properly, could bring well into 6 figures as she sits.

I don't think there's even a remote chance of a 6 figure price. I'd be really surprised if bidding went north of the low 40s, even.

We'll see.

[turbo69bird]

74sd didnt you have a WH on hand? That would make this a nice peice as well.

If I were you Id be all over this car with owning that drivetrain its a NO BRAINER!

[wovenweb]

Just my opinion, but I would agree that there seems to be a lot more purists among the Pontiac crowd than I've met elsewhere.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by wovenweb

Just my opinion, but I would agree that there seems to be a lot more purists among the Pontiac crowd than I've met elsewhere.

Its nice to see totally pure cars out there, but it hurts the hobby/ business when anything but is crucified. It doesnt help the value of low mile original survivors like many think either because there needs to be more people and new blood in or the market gets stagnant much as our pontiac market has gotten.

Besides half the Totally pure cars I know of out there have been rebodied restampted Bullshi t to start with. I have seen hundereds of rebodies and restamps being called the real thing.

Why because they know if they told the truth they would be crucified. People are still doing it they are just lying about it.

If these cars were accepted for what they realy are and there was a market for them as such, then there would be less reason for guys to lie and everyone would know what they were truely getting. this would bring more people into the hobby/ business and that would increase prices across the board.

Vette/ chevy guys restamp like its going out of style, but they admit it so openly that its no big deal and the cars still bring the same money.
Lets face it most uber performance cars had the drivetrains beat out of them early on. so theres nothing wrong with an SR block of the same caliber as long as its put back toegther properly and sold as what it truely is not covered up.

thats my take on cars, I really dont see the difference.

Just look at the Hemi recreations bringing HUGE money with no original pedegree, That helped bring the value of real Hemis higher.
Half the time its guys who own these recreations stepping up to buy the real deal for big money later.

[wovenweb]

I guess one could say that without much of the original driveline you are really buying just a VIN and Firewall tag? Perhaps too harshly worded...

[74SDformula]

Yes, I still have that WH engine hanging around. Unfortunately I am not in a good enough financial position to make a move on this car. In speaking with the seller I think the VIN of my engine is close to the VIN of his car. With that in mind I would think that most of the casting dates would work for this car. Oh well.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by wovenweb

I guess one could say that without much of the original driveline you are really buying just a VIN and Firewall tag? Perhaps too harshly worded...

From the pics I saw looked like there was alot more there than a firewall tag and a vin.

Of course it does have a overflow bottle so it probably isnt worth anything at all. LOL

Ahh man I love this forum sometimes.........

[MikeNoun]

I think what people are saying is that without the RAIV driveline, you're buying a $7,000-$10,000 1969 Firebird 400 for $40,000. Is it worth the extra $30,000 for the paperwork of it being a RAIV car? Depends on what you want to do with it.

It will cost another $20K to get a real RAIV engine (Firebird codes), trans, and rear end (and that may be cheap, just an guesstimate). You can restamp everything and call it a day, but that will be a tough sell at auction I think. Another $3000 for the Ram Air pans, hardware, scoops assembly. Now if you want to leave it that, you have $60K into a 1969 RAIV Bird, which is reasonable if you ask me.

And there's NOTHING wrong with leaving it at that, but....

To do this thing justice, because this is a highly desirable Pontiac, it will need to be professionally restored. That means stripping the body, painting it the right color, adding a vinyl top, etc. Body and paint work can be $10,000, but we all know that a car like this needs "the Yenko treatment", it needs a top notch restorer, not a corner body shop guy. This will cost another $50K for a reputable restorer to do this thing right, to do it to a level that will bring big bucks.

So we're at $110K now all done, and I think that's realistic.

In a different economy, the car may be worth $150K, but based on recent sales of a 1969 RAIV Trans Am at $135K, and RAIV Judges, I think $100K might be pushing it. The days of a $250K 1970 RAIV Trans Am and a $500K 1970 Judge ragtop are history.

For me personally, this would be THE coolest car to restore. I think anyone with a 69 Bird, whether it's a 6-cyl, 350, 400, Ram Air, or Trans Am, understands that a 1969 RAIV Firebird 400 is THE Holy Grail of Pontiac muscle. The only other equivalent would be a 1973 Formula SD-455, or perhaps a 1968 RAII Bird.

Damn cool car. I hope whoever buys it does the full resto in the original Palladium Silver/Black Top combo. And if they do, it will surely get make the cover of HPP along with a full article.

This car SHOULD be worth $175K all done, similar to what 1969 Yenko Camaros bring. Someday that may happen. I think the collector market has really awakened to 1969 Firebirds now as an alternative to the boiler plate Camaros in their collections. A few 1969 Firebird 400 cars have sold for $40K-$75K in recent years.