[gtorich]

Ok, seeing ive had my 455 rebuilt twice, 2007 & 2010, both issues with excessive oil usage and leaking rear main seals..............was thinking of getting a 400 block from butler with there rotating assembly package..................any one running this, i see for just the rotating assembly its 2 grand...........and if you do the block with a forged crank, somewhere in the $5600 range..........now this come unassembled, just wondering if anyone has done this and had no issues...........

Rich

[Formulabruce]

Was your 455 "Align bored" ? What year is the block?
A guy I know ordered a rotating assy from Butler and it was perfect.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

Was your 455 "Align bored" ? What year is the block?
A guy I know ordered a rotating assy from Butler and it was perfect.

That is a good question.........the block is from a 70 455...........will try to see if it was align bored or not.............

Quess it really doesnt matter one way or the other..............two rebuilds on the same block and issues with both................wasnt like i threw these together by myself, both by pontiac builders...............im not gonna bad mouth either one.

Thought with going with a 400 block and starting out new, hopefully so better results.

Emailed Butler, seems they are booked up for 2022, then they only do full motors, then long blocks, then assembled short blocks.............pretty much saying your not gonna get anything done in 2023..............options are limited as of now.........15-20 grand for a motor, which i have half the parts already.............or just throw away your stuff and buy ours and shut up.

I just sit and shake my head,.

[62posbonny]

look at lenwilliamsautomachine.com. He builds a "455" short block with a 400 block and likely the same rotating assembly that Butler sells for $4600. I have a friend running his 455 long block upgraded to forged rods and Ross pistons with his go-to 041 cam and rhodes lifters and it is a great stout street engine.

[ID67goat]

Why not check with a reputable builder nearby that might be able to fix what you have or supply you with what you need? PaulK is not too far away from you...I am sure there might be others nearby also....

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by ID67goat

Why not check with a reputable builder nearby that might be able to fix what you have or supply you with what you need? PaulK is not too far away from you...I am sure there might be others nearby also....

That was the route i was gonna take with Paul K, except he is in the process of moving to texas as of now.............With the builders near me, it seems hit or miss..........

I was hoping someone went with the Butler route i noted..........im a little nervous of all the parts they supply...............im assuming the block is top notch, they dont assemble the short block for you............was told complet motors 1st, long blocks 2nd...........then short blocks, so that could be some time.

Hard to believe with the quality of these parts, that everything is just gonna fit perfect.

Rich

[78w72]

i bought a forged stroker kit for a 400 from butler, then just used one of my own blocks & had a local shop ive used for 25+ years do the short block. i assemble the rest which is not hard to do with basic tools. saves a ton of money & you can verify the work being done for everything else. the short block assembly usually comes with some type of warranty from most reputable shops & the average street assembly is not that expensive.

i actually had what i thought was a rear main leak after getting it in the car & running, shop had me bring it back & replaced the BOP rear main & regasketed the oil pan for free, got it home & back in the car, it leaked worse than the first time! called them up & without any hassle they had me bring it back & checked it out, turns out it was the rear rubber U seal on the oil pan that was leaking, my 1st install of the pan was better than theirs, which i found kinda funny. the milodon pan i have uses the old 3 prong type single bead U seal & it rolled over during install. spoke to mr P body who said to use the 1/4" thick cork rear U pan seal, been dry for 6+ years now. the shop wanted to do a run in to verify no leaks before they released it which meant hooking it up to their dyno... got a few free dyno pulls out of the deal.

point is, its a lot cheaper to go with a reputable local shop, if/when theres a problem most good shops will stand behind their work. doesnt need to be a "pontiac" shop, most good shops will know pontiacs & all other makes of engines.

[Apache Warrior]

I have a 455 I will be posting for sale soon if you're interested in a purchase of something freshly rebuilt?

Send me a private message with your mobile and I'll send you info.

The motor is NW of Chicago. Not far from Oshkosh, WI.

Pat

[i82much]

i had far better luck with a local guy who made fun of me for building a pontiac than a well-known pontiac shop. engine had to be pulled at least 3 times after getting it back from the pontiac shop, has not been pulled since the local guy fixed the issues.

[kingbuzzo]

I was in a similar situation in the spring...70 455 needed complete rebuild plus crank vs buying new.

I talked to Len and Butler and countless others. It was going to be at least a six month wait for a short block and they wanted my core from Canada. It would have ruined summer for sure.

It was way over my budget any way a sliced it so gambled on a used 74 455 that I had to ship from several states over.

Worked out ok, except for the leaking main seal but my old one leaked for twenty years anyway so I'm used to it...lol

[i82much]

i once heard someone say that you should worry about an old car not when there is a spot on the ground from a leak, but when there isn't, because that means it is dry!

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by i82much

i once heard someone say that you should worry about an old car not when there is a spot on the ground from a leak, but when there isn't, because that means it is dry!

Had a good laugh on that................my rear main never leaks on the garage floor, lets just say my car will never rust with all that oil flying around on the underside of the car.

[kingbuzzo]

Originally Posted by gtorich

Had a good laugh on that................my rear main never leaks on the garage floor, lets just say my car will never rust with all that oil flying around on the underside of the car.

Haha...same...that one is going in the vault

[Jim Moshier]

All those radial engine pilots say that. as long as it still dripping there must be oil in it!

[HWYSTR455]

Yes, I've done a block + rotating assembly from Butler before, paid more for a 'performance' block, forged rotating assembly. Pretty sure it was a '71 block.

I had minor variances on the rod big ends but nothing critical, have the build sheet for specific info, but it's buried right now, I'm moving too. But know I got about 100k hard miles out of it, and swapped another in. When I tore it down it was running fine, and didn't find a thing wrong with it other than normal wear.

As I recall, the block was pretty filthy, and had to clean the heck out of it. No complaints on the machine work that I recall.

I would do it again if I were in a somewhat of a time-crunch. When I did this it was like early 2000s, and it was about 5-6 weeks to my door.

As I recall you can send them your block, too.

EDIT: I sprayed that engine a bunch, between 175-250 shots.

.

[HWYSTR455]

I did order main studs, and they did hone the saddles with the main studs, or at least they told me they did. The box did look opened and the studs did look handled.


.

[PunchT37]

Has anyone looked into these 2 problems without building a new\ different engine?

[78w72]

i gave a few suggestions to gtorich on how to approach this, looking at it from a cost perspective with the parts available- it seems the best approach is to bring the engine to a good shop to tear it down & see if theres anything obvious causing the oil consumption issues. since the engine runs good aside from the oil leaks, its safe to assume the rotating assembly & other parts are good, so it will probably just need new rings & possibly bearings but if it was built right the first time the bearing are likely OK, easy to replace if needed. also check the heads to have good seals & guides etc. then simply reassemble it & have the shop do a quick run in to verify no leaks... & if you want, even do a few dyno pulls to give you a number to brag about or know what kind of power & torque curve it has.

unless this will be a 600+ hp engine intended for heavy racing or regular high rpms, the stock 455 crank is more than strong enough to use, lots of guys would prefer a seasoned 455 crank over a new chinese crank, especially as far as cost goes for a street engine. he already has forged rods that are the weak point, although i beat the crap out of a 455 for 10+ years with the same stock rods that were beat on for 20+ years before me, but today thats not too smart when entry level forged rods cost close to the same as reconditioned stock rods.

seems like the best thing to do is just stick with the current rotating combo, have everything freshened up & only replace what is bad if/when its needed. most good shops will have a backlog of other work but for a basic freshen up & minimal machine work, it wont be but a couple-few months to get it done.

if you dont want to stroke it or have future plans for big power needing a forged crank, just keep the current parts & have a good local shop freshen up the short block & assemble the rest yourself if you can, or pay a little extra to have the shop assemble it all.... if you might not make it past dinner, no need to drag it out longer than needed so you can enjoy the car.

[HWYSTR455]

So my thoughts were if the rings washed out, pistons would be scuffed too. Can probably use them, but would have to be checked, and, you don't really want to bore a block without providing the pistons to the shop that's boring it. (Honing usually brings the bore to the correct size for the pistons).

Rods, have to have them checked, regardless. If any resizing needs to happen, there's a cost there.

You might get lucky on the crank where you may only need to check and polish it, but also needs to be checked.

All I was saying is that the cost of a prepped rotating assembly is close to the same cost of having that work done on your parts, and you still may need to replace some of your parts. (not necessarily the rods or crank even).

I personally would never trust a used engine, short block, or parts, and would still have them checked prior to assembly.

The cast cranks in the rotating assembly kits are fine up to a certain power level, you don't HAVE to go to a forged crank, can save some money there. Pretty sure the cast cranks are readily available too. (cam basically dictates the power level).

The rotating assemblies for the 4.210 and 4.250 cranks costs the same, might as well go for the 4.250, especially since they are more readily available. (Call and ask).

Personally, I would trust a new crank over a 50+ year old crank any day. And have personally seen, and had, OE 455 cranks fail.

If the engine is apart, 'getting by', and 'doing it right', are not that far different in cost. If you have to do it twice, it certainly will be more.

.

[gtorich]

Im thinking of going with Scott suggestion.........might as well find out what the problem is with this motor..........just hard to find anyone in my area that is somewhat trustworthy.......i have trust issues. lol

Hwystr...........i hear you, good points...........problem im seeing is these rotating assembles are not in stock anywhere.............or who knows whey they will come in.

I do appreciate all the help im getting from you guys...........this stuff gets so confusing really fast...........Rich