[DAV137]

Months have passed since I lost Larry. And in that time I have been through a lot and also learned a lot. For many reasons, some personal and some not so personal, I will forego the details of this post. Let me just say one thing, for any of you that know or deal with Ray Cox, I want to clarify the person he is. He says he is my friend, he says he was Larry's friend. He is not my friend. Nor is he my husband's friend. Ray has his faults and he has his qualities, just like all of us. But understand this, Ray is Ray. He is not going to use the coat tails of my husband to ride anymore. He is not the nobel peace price friend that he would like for you all to believe. Someone recently told me he made a decision based on the past history of how Ray was so great because of how he was a good friend to Larry. Well people, things are not always how they appear. I honestly expect some fallout from this post, my problems are mine to handle. But I will not let the memory of my husband and his integrity be used by someone else for his own selfish purpose. So please accept this post in the most sincere meaning of how it is being presented. Thank you to those who have helped me to make this decision. I truly appreciate your help.

[Lady Dude]

I'm standing shoulder to shoulder with you. We have blown off a lot over time but I cannot stand the way he talks about Pontiac Dude especially when the Dude went out of his way to help him...he is a friend to no one but himself....don't let that smiley facade fool you.....he is a user.
Darcie...you have friends up here you don't even know about...and I'm one of them.
Karen
For every bad tempered, person up here on these boards there are ten good ones right behind him.

[herdswoman]

Come now Ray, let's cut the crap. How much do you owe Darcie?? Rounded up to the nearest hundred will suffice.

What tools of Larry's are in your possession that you "haven't sold"?

Mess with one of the ladies, you mess with all of us. And hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Your Pontiac family is all around you, Darcie, you are not alone....family comes together and closes ranks when danger threatens. And when a snake is in their midst, they kill it. At the very least, they throw it so far away that it will never approach again.

You don't steal from a widow, Ray. Oh, excuse me, was I making unfounded allegations???? I recall that I didn't like that in the MR-1 thread, so let me try again.

You don't delay making payments to a widow, Ray. Not when the money was in your hands and should have been handed directly off to her. You don't make flimsy excuses. You don't make her wait for months.

Perhaps some of the people who were at Larry's funeral would like to see what the little snake has been so busy with that he cannot fulfill his obligations to his recently deceased "best friend". Oh, that's right, he's been busy scrutinizing and finding fault with others.

Damn shame. You know what they say about pride going before a fall.....

Gee. I was just so upset about this very sort of thing - people getting all high and mighty, belittlement, holding up others for public ridicule. So I left. Next thing I know, my phone is ringing on a totally unrelated matter that makes belittlement look like child's play. Hmmm. Karma has a funny sense of humor, doesn't she? This place is like the freakin' Hotel California where I can "check out anytime I like, but I can never leave."

Manufacturing error vs. stealing from a widow....

Customer service issue vs. robbing from the dead....

My....my.....my. Life does get interesting.

Looks like the spotlight you crave is all yours, Ray.

[Lady Dude]

Tighten up the wagons boys, I see a bad moon risin'....

Amy...well said....valid questions.

Oh and Ray that Dude Scoop looks real good on your car................................NOT! Then there is the matter of the money....after two years...I dunno know what do you all think...will we ever get paid?
Ray is a regular side show artist...he takes your attention away from what's really going on.

It was bad enough what he did to us Darcie....but to do it to you...Larry's widow, is just unbelieveably nasty.

[GreysonWinfieldEsq]

I'm assuming this has to do with the donations & sale of Larry's items after his death. I would really like to know if this is in fact that. I didn't know Larry personally or really thru this website. I donated because I felt it was the right thing to do and help someones family out that is in this hobby and that so many people had good thinks to say about. If any money has been held out then I doubt Ray's reputation will ever be repaired. Even worse will be the fact he has to live with that.

[slgenge]

Ray I dont know you except from the posts on the board.But from what I have read, it looks like you have defrauded a deceased members wife. I enjoyed Larrys post on PY and respected his veiws and opinions. Darcie does not need to be treated like this. Karma is does not discriminate against anyone if you have wronged this person you should make it right.If anyone defrauded my wife after I was deseased I would hope that my friends would do the right thing.You never know Ray what goes around comes around.I have made many friends on this board and the members that have met me know that I am a stand up guy as are 99 percent of the board members are.You never know who you are going to pi$$ off next.DO THE RIGHT THING RAY OR FACE THE MUSIC

Shawn

[herdswoman]

Greyson, good question re. donations. I forgot about that!!!! Who did collect that money? Mike, do you recall? I remember Ray saying something about "Darcie"s overwhelmed and she wouldn't want to get a lot of mail". Hmmm.....

Perchance this is one of those rare threads that should be posted in both Lobby and Business?

I know Ray is holding out on the $500 deposit on the sale of Larry's TransAm, $500 for the sale of his welder - which he then proceeded to try and dicker down the price after agreeing on it with Darcie. In the meantime, she had a CASH BUYER for $500 that she let go, because she didn't want to sell it out from under Ray. And who knows how many other tools and parts that were taken from Larry's garage by his "best friend"?

Damn ironic! I was just talking about whose life could stand such scrutiny...and here we are again. Same song, with a radically different verse. Step into the light, Ray, so you can see how well you like it when it shines on you...

Your reputation - what is left of it - will be ruined. And since you've lost the listing on the Davis house, broken contract and all...well, that will have to be dealt with too, won't it?

To keep it on a local level - or not. That is the question.

Quit calling Darcie. She's sick of your bull*****. And I'm not even getting warmed up. You'll be praying for the day when I voiced my opinion once and went quietly away by the time I get through with you if you don't make things right with this woman - and the man whose car you took from Nebraska when you delivered Larry's TransAm.

Keep playing checkers, Ray. Because the game is chess and I guarantee you I'm six moves ahead.

[David Holmberg]

For the record, Ray did hand over a money order tonight for what appears to be the Deposit on the car, less the E-bay fee.

The rest is still unresolved, and excellent question about the donations.

[mike nixon]

darcie, anytime you need help / advice you have my number.


amy well said.

ray quit calling me, i don't want to hear your bull**** i want to see action. get all of what you took from darcie back in the condition it was in when it left. we know larry didn't keep any junk so don't be baiting and switching stuff you've had laying around for larry's good parts. this includes darcie's house keys, ALL OF THEM. you've had WAY too long to make this right and didn't while remodelling your house?

what'd larry think of that?

make good on the car you took from the other forum member without paying for it.

don't force darcie to take legal action, you think this's bad?wait until it hits the papers or you get served a subpeona at work.

amy's right, mfg problems are nothing compared to stealing from the dead.

[johnta1]

Well, it seems my post vanished. :confused:

Anyway, is this why they call you No Pay Ray?

You expect people to believe you, when you deceive Larry's widow like this?
What kind of a man does this to a newly widowed 'friend'? :confused:

If ever there was a time for a lynch mob, it is now.

Ray, you need to correct this, and now.:mad:

[Brian Baker]

Wow!:(

Let me start my ball rolling by saying that I am in agreement with Amy and many other opinions stated here...but that a part of me is really miffed that you good people voicing these opinions, whom I've considered friends for many years, are so often judgemental of me for doing EXACTLY what you are doing right now. It brings a word to mind. Hmmmmm, let me think a minute...what's that word again? Oh yeah, now I remember...HYPOCRITE! But that's ok...Mongo has very broad shoulders, and knows he's doing the right thing when you good people are being so critical of his motives and actions.

Now about Ray...I've been getting phone calls from board members in the last week about Ray...I must say that I'm not surprised, however, I am sadly disappointed. I'll share my own experience with Ray, many of you already know it:

I purchased a set of used cylinder heads from Ray that were to be used on my funny car project. E-heads ported from Butler with all hardware and rockers and stud girdles, basically ready to be bolted on, but I was going to freshen them up. Ray had advertised them as 330-cfm (or Butlers "race" port). This was in the fall a couple of years ago. I send the money, $2200, and Ray is to have John Langer pick the heads up at a race and bring them home with him (to save on shipping). I thought I was getting a fair price, given that when adding up the cost to do these heads new, with the rockers and stud girdles, it would have cost just over $3000.

I drive to Langer's home in Philly, a little over a 2 hour drive for me, to get the heads. Heads are there, but no rockers or stud girdles. John says those weren't given to him. No problem, I'll have Ray ship them. I take a quick look at the heads, and the intake ports seem awful small. So I ask John, "Do they look like they've had a Butler race port done on them to you?" and John replied "No, in fact they don't look like they've been touched". I bring them home. They have Butler markings on them, so I know they at least came from Butler.

I call Ray and he says he has to pull the rockers and stud girdles out of his trailer. I say no problem, there's no rush. About 7 months go by and I get the other parts. Again, this is no problem for me, I'm in no hurry getting the engine together. I open the box, and I'm pissed. The stud girdles are the cheap, hollow bar stock variety that Fulper used to sell for $99 new, not even close to the quality Crane pieces like I had just sold off my d-ports. Two of the rockers were involved in a valvetrain failure, with the pushrod cup area beat up so badly it looked like someone had worked them over with a Dremel tool with a cutting bit. All of the roller bearing trunions were rough, and the rocker nuts were missing. I go through the box, no rocker nuts! I look further and notice too that half of the mouting hardware for the stud girdles is missing as well.

I call Butler to find out more about the heads. David confirms that they worked on them, but they're not a race port, they're the 300-cfm port that they advertise for $2200 ready to bolt on, and mine flowed 307-cfm at .700" lift. In other words, all they had done to them was a bowl clean up. Definately not what Ray had advertised.

I call Ray and explain my findings. He's receptive and we try to hash out a resolution. In short, I tell him I'm willing to keep the heads, but that the rockers and girdles are junk and I can't use them. I say I want to send those pieces back in exchange for $400 of my money back, since the heads are not as advertised. I thought $1800 for a used set of E-heads was a little steep on my end, but not a rip-off. Ray balked, stating he couldn't let them go that cheaply. I then tell him he can take everything back, and I want a full refund, plus shipping, to which he readily agreed.

So there I was, 7 months later, Ray's had my money all that time. He sends me a check for $2250 within two weeks, and I shipped the heads back UPS. Shipping ended up costing a little more, once everything was packaged up, but that was no big deal. I was more upset that I waisted a tank of gas and a whole Saturday driving to and from Langer's home to get the heads. I was also upset that someone I thought of as a friend in the Pontiac community, someone I had helped at Norwalk with his car, and who had helped me at Norwalk in 2003 with my car, would try to pull a scam on me like that. In regards to the junk rockers and girdles, Scott Misus summed it up to me this way...look at Ray's car, Brian...it's very possible that in Ray's mind, those parts were usable, when the rest of us would throw them away as junk...maybe he wasn't pulling a scam? Well, that would explain the junk rockers/girdles, but not the misrepresenting of the heads. I understand Ray sold those heads and parts to his friend Mike, who also frequents this board. I haven't heard any public complaints, so I assume Mike was happy with them.

I can't fault Ray too much on that deal, after all I did get my money back in a timely manner (2 weeks). I can fault him for misrepresenting the heads and parts however. I just chalked it up to experience. He's had similar dealings with others from the board, Ken "Pontiacdude" Keefer, Jack "Lil Jack" Pumphrey, Bob Cacciotti...owing money all the while out racing his car. I know about owing money...I still owe some very good people from this board money for parts that have been sent for the funny car. It's not anyone's business but mine and the parties involved, of course, but I'm not ashamed to admit it publicly, as I believe there is a difference in the money that I owe, and the money that Ray owes. I'm not crying poor mouth while simulataneously dragging my car out to races trying to win some money. That's the difference.

Ray's going to get hit over the head enough from Amy, and rightly so. For that reason, I won't pile on at this time, except to say that I am really ashamed of you Ray for taking advantage of someone in Darcie's situation. Never mind her status as a widow...she's the widow of a man who was a very good friend to you.

[Region Warrior]

[QUOTE=Brian Baker]Wow!:(


I drive to Langer's home in Philly, a little over a 2 hour drive for me, to get the heads. Heads are there, but no rockers or stud girdles. John says those weren't given to him. No problem, I'll have Ray ship them. I take a quick look at the heads, and the intake ports seem awful small. So I ask John, "Do they look like they've had a Butler race port done on them to you?" and John replied "No, in fact they don't look like they've been touched". I bring them home. They have Butler markings on them, so I know they at least came from Butler.

I call Butler to find out more about the heads. David confirms that they worked on them, but they're not a race port, they're the 300-cfm port that they advertise for $2200 ready to bolt on, and mine flowed 307-cfm at .700" lift. In other words, all they had done to them was a bowl clean up. Definately not what Ray had advertised.

I understand Ray sold those heads and parts to his friend Mike, who also frequents this board. I haven't heard any public complaints, so I assume Mike was happy with them.

If thier the same heads, i still have them along with the rockers.
But they are not a simple bowl clean up as Butler stated.
They in fact flow 315 intake(2.19). Forgot the exhaust flow.
And been trimmed to 66 cc's.
Had them flowed by a guy up in Il., along with one of Butlers wide ports.
Dont know this guy personnelly, but he had at least one of every Pontiac block, head, and intake made in his shop.
His pick was mine over the wideport due to inversion @ 650 lift.
1 rocker needs replacing. 2 more need gone thru to make sure thier ok.
I did not buy the girdles.

Maybe not what you expected off a 8.90/160 mph car.

[herdswoman]

Greyson, same here. Darcie and I were on the phone for over an hour.

You've seen me talk a little smack, and hopefully you've seen me help several people. You've never seen me be mean or want to take someone down.

Until now.

I hope rtzkd managed those donations from beginning to end and they never saw the black hole that is Ray Cox's Pay Pal account.

Ray, if we "are all thinking bad", it's because it IS bad. Or is it that the rest of the world is crazy and you are the only sane one?

Your track record speaks for itself.

Do you know what the worst is, Ray?
It's not the cheating, the excuses, the delaying or the lying.

YOU MADE DARCIE FEEL ALONE, ABANDONED AND MISS HER DEAD HUSBAND MORE THAN EVER.

You ripped those scabs off those wounds. You've hurt her and made her cry more than once. You've provoked her until she felt she had no recourse - except to come to the family where she felt there was some integrity, where people came to her when she was in need without getting in her business.

And when the men she turned to felt that the male chromosomes might needed to be balanced out with female help, they called me. I called her. Several strageties were laid out and she chose the path she wanted to go down.

Looks like she's doin' Larry proud.

It's all firsthand information. All fact. I have never lied to anyone on this board, never self-promoted, never had my own agenda. My record speaks for itself as well.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Brian. That story sure has mellowed out since the time that deal went down.


And if I remember correctly from our conversation back then, he wasn't, as you say........ that receptive? ......... and said 'he wanted' it all back or nothing and his tone was different then you now state?

Racing while still owing money. You list is way to short.

Lot more bad info out there.

He's knows who he owes and what he needs to do.

Shame Darcie had to do what she had to do to get him off his A$$ and start to make it right.

Same deal with the 1050cfm $300.00 CHEAP carb. I Had to say I would buy the carb that Lil Jack sold to him 2 years ago to get him to pay Lil' Jack at Norwalk.

Ray. Hammer me for taking time off and not racing. But I paid and pay my debts incured during rough times down here after the huricanes and other issues.

Ya need to take a lesson in life. Your not a Professional Racer.
Take care of Business first, Play Later.


But I'm done. Not worth the Brain Space anymore.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Poncho. Did Ray ever pay ya the $2500 more or less you posted one time he owed ya over a year ago on parts, cranks, etc?

Did ya get the 421 #990 crank he broke of yours deal straighten out with Ray yet? :(

Hope so. Hard to find those anymore.

[dancolkate]

It was great to see this Pontiac community come together to help Darcie.

God knows she did not deserve this.

But the way most of you are going about this is all wrong. The public bashing of another human being has gone on here since I've joined and is the reason I'm out of here. Even the moderators have joined in this time. Another sad day for PY. There are other ways to handle it.

All Darcie wanted to do was publicly disasociate herself from another member. She did not ask for all your opinions and stories and unsolicited help. YOU have made it worse.

GTOWAGON wrote:
I have no involvement in this at all but after reading this thread and the one in the buisness section i have to ask what did Bryan Jensen do that was worse than what Mr cox did? will he also be banned for life from this site? if not it seems that there is a double standard here.

Well GTOWAGON, you are an intellegent person.

God Bless you Darcie, I hope you're able to find peace and forgiveness in Larry's death as well as all this BS.

[GTOWAGON]

Originally Posted by dancolkate

It was great to see this Pontiac community come together to help Darcie.

God knows she did not deserve this.

But the way most of you are going about this is all wrong. The public bashing of another human being has gone on here since I've joined and is the reason I'm out of here. Even the moderators have joined in this time. Another sad day for PY. There are other ways to handle it.

All Darcie wanted to do was publicly disasociate herself from another member. She did not ask for all your opinions and stories and unsolicited help. YOU have made it worse.

GTOWAGON wrote:
I have no involvement in this at all but after reading this thread and the one in the buisness section i have to ask what did Bryan Jensen do that was worse than what Mr cox did? will he also be banned for life from this site? if not it seems that there is a double standard here.

Well GTOWAGON, you are an intellegent person.

God Bless you Darcie, I hope you're able to find peace and forgiveness in Larry's death as well as all this BS.

WOW someone thinks i'm intellegent THANKS

[Brian Baker]

It's been two years...I've had time to mellow over it. It was when he said all or nothing that the heads went back and he refunded my money.

Mike, as to what they flowed, I'm only repeating what David Butler read to me from his records. They still are not what they were advertised as. As to the rockers, I wouldn't use any of them, the trunions on all of them are rough, but that's your choice. To each his own.

[herdswoman]

Dancolcate, you needed to speak to Darcie on the phone. This has been going on since Larry's death. She has pursued this for months on her own and has no family besides her youngest son who is only 18 years old.

As I posted in the Lobby:

Do you know what the worst is, Ray?
It's not the cheating, the excuses, the delaying or the lying.

YOU MADE DARCIE FEEL ALONE, ABANDONED AND MISS HER DEAD HUSBAND MORE THAN EVER.

You ripped those scabs off those wounds. You've hurt her and made her cry more than once. You've provoked her until she felt she had no recourse - except to come to the family where she felt there was some integrity, where people came to her when she was in need without getting in her business.

And when the men she turned to felt that the male chromosomes might needed to be balanced out with female help, they called me. I called her. Several strageties were laid out and she chose the path she wanted to go down.

Dancolkate, it's her loss, her grief, her call.

It IS a sad day for our community....just not in the way you might have thought.

[David Holmberg]

And to go along with Amy's comments, it's not only that Darcie wanted to distance herself from Ray. It's that he still owes her parts and money.

And this thread helped Pitch 400 get the money for his car that Ray's been holding for the past 5+ weeks without paying for.

In all honesty, Ray did a lot of very good things to help Darcie after Larry's passing. But at the same time he took advantage of the situation as well. I'm sure his intentions were good, but as Ray's shown in the past, his priorities are not always in the right place.