[alcohol4me]

Have had this car for 15 years and figure is now time to figure out what it really is( if anybody knows). It has a 400 4 bbl, 4 speed trans, bench seat, drum brakes, nothing really fancy, is still all original.I have seen the adds about "a little GTO in every one" and they aren't kiddin, it hauls ass. So does anybody know if it is rare and worth restoring. The ser. # starts with 233371p, engine code is PJ, cowl tag ST71 PON114567 TR238 62 62 PNT 04B. Any info anybody has would be greatly appreciated.

[UPC-WU2]

A 400-4bbl/4 speed GT-37 is rare as hell. Only 572 built with 400-4bbl. Even fewer with 4-speed.

All GT-37s were bench seat cars. All 1971 GT-37s came with hood pins, dual exhaust with chrome splitters, body-colored sport mirrors, vinyl stripes, Rally II wheels w/o trim rings.
Your GT-37 was built at Pontiac, Michigan in April 1971, four months after mine. It was originally Canyon Copper Metallic with Sandalwood interior. And likely has the 1971-1/2 full-length "bayonnet" stripes instead of the 2-color "eyebrow" stripes that the earlier cars got. A 400-4bbl/4 speed engine code would be WK.

Welcome to the forums, and post some pictures of that GT-37!
I am building a GT-37 website/registry that will be online someday. Hopefully this fall.

[Ron Landis]

Originally Posted by UPC-WU2

A 400-4bbl/4 speed GT-37 is rare as hell. Only 572 built with 400-4bbl. Even fewer with 4-speed.

All GT-37s were bench seat cars. All 1971 GT-37s came with hood pins, dual exhaust with chrome splitters, body-colored sport mirrors, vinyl stripes, Rally II wheels w/o trim rings.
Your GT-37 was built at Pontiac, Michigan in April 1971, four months after mine. It was originally Canyon Copper Metallic with Sandalwood interior. And likely has the 1971-1/2 full-length "bayonnet" stripes instead of the 2-color "eyebrow" stripes that the earlier cars got. A 400-4bbl/4 speed engine code would be WK.

Welcome to the forums, and post some pictures of that GT-37!
I am building a GT-37 website/registry that will be online someday. Hopefully this fall.

actually referred to as the "sword stripe"? Just curious. Ron

[Ron Landis]

Sweet cars...I luv 'em! The 400/4 speed is killer! Don't put too much stock into PHS. I'll get killed for this but I know for a fact that they are NOT infallible. My '69 GTO ragtop was a verified numbers matching one owner two barrel car but PHS had it listed as a YS car! Also had the firewall grommets for hide-aways which it didn't have. I believe the order was altered on the line, but purely a guess on my part. Other sources listed car as one of 215 or one of 216...depending on source. Just saying....looks like you got the real deal and I wouldn't concern myself with the rocker moldings not being listed. Stranger things have happened. Nice ride. Do her proud! Ron

['ol Pinion head]

Sweet project, 400-4spd, & like the color. Envious that you have all vinyl interior... don't have to deal with a parody cloth/vinyl seat restoration, much easier to correctly restore the all vinyl seats.

As you prob have figured out, not many factory 400 4spd GT-37s have survived. Out of 572 400 4bbl 1971 & 71 1/2's built, I've long estimated 250 or so were 400 automatic cars, with the remaining 322 (or so) being divided between the base transmission HD 3 spd cars & the cars ordered with M20 or M22's. The exact number produced will never be known, just basing the estimates of trans useage on what I've compiled in nearly 20 years of research, the GT-37 survey, & many conversations with previous owners.

Wondering about the rocker moldings being original installed or not, when the fenders come off during resto process, the fender date codes are stamped on the flanged metal area near the parking lights. Can also look for evidence at the bottom of the fender of the factory rectangular hole & plastic grommet that the front screw attaches through the rocker molding. Original dated fenders & the factory stamped hole... chances are the rocker moldings were factory installed.

[alcohol4me]

When i took the fenders and rocker mouldings off it was quite obvious that the mouldings were a factory installed option, cause as a pretty good bodyman i dont know anyone that can weld clip studs on with a stud spotter that perfect. The document i got was only some import papers for customs clearance, hopefully the full package will clear the air.
As for what i plan to do with the car, i have sold it twice in the past and it always came back so maybe it is an omen that i should sell my mopar collection and restore it. Does anyone have any idea what a car like this would be worth when restored, it is numbers match only thing im not sure of is when i bought the car it had an open rear end, but it went out in a blaze of glory smokin off a set of N50s, so i found a clutch plate posi from a 69 Gutlass and stuffed it in, it still has original gear set.
So anyone wanna buy a 70 SuperBee? Just kiddin guys, dont kick me out.

[CT Goat]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

As you prob have figured out, not many factory 400 4spd GT-37s have survived. Out of 572 400 4bbl 1971 & 71 1/2's built, I've long estimated 250 or so were 400 automatic cars, with the remaining 322 (or so) being divided between the base transmission HD 3 spd cars & the cars ordered with M20 or M22's. The exact number produced will never be known, just basing the estimates of trans useage on what I've compiled in nearly 20 years of research, the GT-37 survey, & many conversations with previous owners.

I find this curious because I thought you knew everything there was to know about these cars. I, for one, have a listing done my Fred Simmonds where he breaks down the GT-37 by engine. For 1971, 170 GT-37s had the 400-4 auto, while 402 had the same engine with a stick. I have no info how many of those were 3- and 4-speeds.

[north]

Originally Posted by Ron Landis-formerly Jegstek

Sweet cars...I luv 'em! The 400/4 speed is killer! Don't put too much stock into PHS. I'll get killed for this but I know for a fact that they are NOT infallible. My '69 GTO ragtop was a verified numbers matching one owner two barrel car but PHS had it listed as a YS car! Also had the firewall grommets for hide-aways which it didn't have. I believe the order was altered on the line, but purely a guess on my part. Other sources listed car as one of 215 or one of 216...depending on source. Just saying....looks like you got the real deal and I wouldn't concern myself with the rocker moldings not being listed. Stranger things have happened. Nice ride. Do her proud! Ron

Ron,
I also have seen blips in PHS's but your 2bbl example is not a mistake, the 2bbl option was a no charge and since the PHS is an accounting document only it does not refer to options that have no financial impact. Something to consider when buying a auto trans GTO, no way to know from the PHS if it was a 2bbl car.
Another example of this is notchback seat, no option is shown (but you know from the trim code)

A common area I have seen a mistake is tinted glass, about one in ten AC cars shows softray on the windshield only, which is debatable if this was permitted with AC. But either way, every time I have seen one of those cars in the flesh they all had tint all around.

Another area is things like HD cooling, some RA IV cars show it as a seperate charged option (as the ordering books show it must be) but others do not have it, same for speedo adapters.

I parted years ago a 69 GTO convert that was a rotten mess but 100% virgin unmolested (I knew the only owner who did not know a carb from a lugnut) and the car had 3.23 gears (even though it was a base engine auto no AC and no axle options) and a clutch fan (like AC cars) but again no HD clutch fan option on the PHS.

You regularily see PHS's that have hand written corrections on them, probably in response to dealer complaints about missing items, figure for every one of those there was another one that was not corrected since I never heard of a car salesman who would notify the factory because the car had an option the dealer was not charged for, and others where the dealer failed to notice missing or incorrect options.

The bad news about this is that if you have a car with a desirable option like an optional motor that somehow did not show up on the PHS you are out of luck short of having a buildsheet or a convincingly virgin car.

[Ron Landis]

Originally Posted by north

Ron,
I also have seen blips in PHS's but your 2bbl example is not a mistake, the 2bbl option was a no charge and since the PHS is an accounting document only it does not refer to options that have no financial impact. Something to consider when buying a auto trans GTO, no way to know from the PHS if it was a 2bbl car.
Another example of this is notchback seat, no option is shown (but you know from the trim code)

A common area I have seen a mistake is tinted glass, about one in ten AC cars shows softray on the windshield only, which is debatable if this was permitted with AC. But either way, every time I have seen one of those cars in the flesh they all had tint all around.

Another area is things like HD cooling, some RA IV cars show it as a seperate charged option (as the ordering books show it must be) but others do not have it, same for speedo adapters.

I parted years ago a 69 GTO convert that was a rotten mess but 100% virgin unmolested (I knew the only owner who did not know a carb from a lugnut) and the car had 3.23 gears (even though it was a base engine auto no AC and no axle options) and a clutch fan (like AC cars) but again no HD clutch fan option on the PHS.

You regularily see PHS's that have hand written corrections on them, probably in response to dealer complaints about missing items, figure for every one of those there was another one that was not corrected since I never heard of a car salesman who would notify the factory because the car had an option the dealer was not charged for, and others where the dealer failed to notice missing or incorrect options.

The bad news about this is that if you have a car with a desirable option like an optional motor that somehow did not show up on the PHS you are out of luck short of having a buildsheet or a convincingly virgin car.

this has been discounted as well. as I saw PHS on a RA IV clone that actually listed it as the "2-bbl carb- regular gas engine.". Although there was no charge...it was still an option and listed on the sheet. My PHS specified "YS" engine...totally incorrect. Again, this I have witnessed. Same with glass. This air conditioned ragtop and my four speed/ air '69 Grand Prix had straight glass and was listed as such...w/s only. I cannot comment on the other things...only what I know to be fact. Thanx. Ron

[alcohol4me]

thanks for the info, the engine code on the rad support says PJ if that means anything, the car was repainted brown so all factory decals in doors are painted over was thinking of trying to remove paint somehow just to see what they say. I have been reading threads on build sheet locations so may have to start the quest for a needle in the haystack, be nice to know if indeed was a real 4 speed car, it does have a muncie with a hurst shifter and 3.55 gears, and looks like factory hump. I guess a little more digging is in order.

[gloryrestoparts]

spend the money to get the PHS. That'll tell you whether its a real GT-37 or not. Or if you happen to locate the build sheet, but still not a bad idea to get PHS

[CDN2PLS2]

That sounds like a Cool one.

[alcohol4me]

may sound foolish but what is a PHS

[alcohol4me]

I checked out all the threads on where to look for the build sheet and then went to look and found it under the carpet, came out in 2 pieces and is kinda faint but is still readable under a good light , engine code is WK, trans box has a black check mark thru it and can only see a W, road wheels is a JT, Fender piercing is 320, axle is WH(i think). Does this give any clues to whether or not this is a real GT-37.

[Judge273]

As stated earlier: All GT-37s were bench seat cars. All 1971 GT-37s came with hood pins, dual exhaust with chrome splitters, body-colored sport mirrors, vinyl stripes, Rally II wheels w/o trim rings. Engines could be ordered with 350, 400, 455, or 455HO.

So far you have the right seats and wheels from build sheet for a GT-37. It should show GT option listed.

Any sport mirrors or hood pins on car? PHS (Pontiac Historic Services) is a service were you order a copy of the invoice of a car based on VIN. http://www.phs-online.com/services.htm

Sounds like a nice car as is! Do you have some pictures? 400 4 speed CC with sword stripes is a righteous car!

[OVERULD]

Welcome to the forums alcohol4me! Sounds like you've got quite a rare car on your hands. You've picked the right spot to get help on what you've got and if you haven't figured it out yet, we like pictures. So post some up. If you have trouble with that, you can e-mail some to a member who can post them for you.

BJ

[alcohol4me]

I took some pic s for you guys, not much to see, just a jewel in the ruff I guess. I have all the parts for it except for the back bumper, it has a few dents, and needs new dash original is cracked up, odd thing is has ac vents and no ac, they are hooked up to vents coming in from the firewall. oh yeh i dont have the original wheels but do have a set from a 71 cutlass S if they are the same? anyone know for sure?
I drove it around for one summer back in 87 and blew the rear diff up. I took it apart and started to paint it orange like a GTO even had a front clip lined up but lost interest and it has been sittin behind the shop for a while. Had trouble finding a replacement but got one and its back together. Every year or two i fill up the tires and take it for a drive, but last time the brakes werent the best made it kinda scarey slowing it back down, drum brakes never were that good to start with.
So I guess now i need to get a PHS report and then do some serious thinkin and decide whether i wanna restore it or sell it to pontiac enthusiast, it isnt every day you come across a rare one, and i currently have 4 Mopars i the yard, but you guys dont wanna here about them.
Was just sittin here going over build sheet and there is a small box with SPC OPT and it has a G in it is that where it would tell you if it is indeed a GT-37
I will try and take a pic of build sheet,it is very faint so will see if works.
tahnks again for the info guys

[gloryrestoparts]

Originally Posted by alcohol4me

oh yeh i dont have the original wheels but do have a set from a 71 cutlass S if they are the same? anyone know for sure?

no, completely different.

[UPC-WU2]

Get the PHS and you will know for sure. By the way a PHS package costs $50, but answers a lot of questions. Sounds like you have a really rare car.

I believe that a 'G' in the SPC OPT box denotes the GT-37 option, but I'm not 100% sure. The GT-37 option package is denoted with the letter 'G' on the '71 T-37 order form.

My '71 GT-37's build sheet has a 'G' in that box too.

[Lloyd-TX]

Welcome aboard!

That is one VERY cool GT-37. Canyon Copper / Sandlewood is a great combination. It's most definitely worth ordering the PHS invoice - even if you decide to sell the car.

I'd be interested in knowing whether it is/was equipped with the M22 (aka "rock crusher") Muncie transmission. The PHS would show sales code "35G", 4-speed HD trans.