[Radman]

I am working on a modified 62 Tempest. The radiator is 12" tall 24" wide, US Radiator Optima radiator with the triple flow option. I have found that 2 of the 10 inch electric fans will make a clean fit on the inside of the radiator (Puller style). Each fan is rated at 1000 CFM. They will be mounted flush on the radiator. That will give me a total of 2000 CFM of air movement if I am sitting still or in slow traffic. The engine is a 61 Bonneville 389 with Tri-power. Compression is 10.25/1, bore is .040 over stock, and the camshaft is the Jegs 272/282 total duration camshaft. The exhaust is Headman Shorty headers that are ceramic coated inside and out, into a 2.5 pipe system.
Will that be enough air movement to cool the beast?

[Radman]

Oh Yea, this is a street machine with a 700R4 automatic and 3.50 rear gears.

[BigB]

Does the two fans really give you 2000 cfm or just 1000 cfm spread across the area? Like running two hoses of water at 7psi each does not give you 14psi but does give you more volume. I have no idea but would love to hear from some of the knowledgeable people here as I too have thought about dual fans.

[Radman]

Originally Posted by BigB

Does the two fans really give you 2000 cfm or just 1000 cfm spread across the area? Like running two hoses of water at 7psi each does not give you 14psi but does give you more volume. I have no idea but would love to hear from some of the knowledgeable people here as I too have thought about dual fans.

Each fan is rated 1000 CFM the total for both is 2000.

[HWYSTR455]

Is that the measurement of the radiator with the tanks, or just the core? Seems pretty small, but I'm not familiar with the '62.

Derale makes some really great fans, they rate them as 'primary' cooling fans, and have a wide selection of sizes and with or without shrouds. They have a dual 10" fan setup with a composite shroud that can be trimmed some if need be, and is 24.75" wide by 11.5" tall. It's rated at 1360CFM, and it probably more realistic rating than 1000cfm per fan. Personally, I believe anything under 2400cfm is going to be an issue cooling even a mild 389.

You may be able to do a custom shroud, and use a larger fan than the core size is. If you could squeeze a pair of 14" fans, or one 16" fan, that should provide enough cooling plus some.

Might be able to make an existing, off the shelf fan & shroud setup work too. Even if it hang over past the edge of the core, you can use HVAC foam pipe insulation, sqeeze it in there to block the gap. There's a dual 14" setup with shroud that's 25.5 x 17 that's rated at 4000 cfm that is close, and you certainly wouldn't have to worry about flow ever again. You can trim the ends of the shroud to hang slightly over the tanks, and fill the top & bottom gaps. You may be able to even make the gap all on the bottom, fill it, and it would be unnoticed from the top, looking into the engine bay.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-16826/

Here's an 18.5 x 23.5 rated at 2750 cfm, and less expensive:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G4852/

Search Summit for 'electric fan', they list sizes, etc.

I put a 19x19 2400cfm fan on a mild 350 Olds, with a shroud that covered about 70% of the core, and it was boarderline. In traffic, with the AC on, it creeped, and would reach 220, enough to make me nervous. Just to give you an idea.

Also be advised, cheap fans not only have bogus ratings, but will fail after a short period of continuous use. Be careful of what you choose, you get what you pay for.

.

.

[Radman]

The core measures 12 3/8 tall 24 1/2 wide. I ordered 2 12 inch fans that are rated at 1200 CFM each. That will give me 2400 CFM in fan and cover 78% of the core surface. If that dosn't work it will be building a custom fan shroud and going to a mechanical fan. Then changing the 2 fans to pusher type and mount them on the front. The radiator is a US Radiator Optima with the triflow option. That is a sectioned upper and lower around the core that forces the fluid to make 3 passes from in to out. It is also a 4 core radiator.

[HWYSTR455]

I think you should be good. Curious though, so let us know how it works out, k?

.

[Formulabruce]

Guys, the size of the radiator matters not if the fans being used do not COVER the entire radiator.( or the fan shroud combo) If you dont use a shroud, or its small, your only going to cool whats pulled where the fans are.
Doing the CFM math seems a waste, at least run a shroud and put fans so they encompass the inner shroud completely ( covering the whole radiator) so you SUCK on the WHOLE radiator, if not, your wasting a great radiators capacity to cool

[xlrate]

Radman,

What was the verdict with your fans? I have a similar setup in my 63 lemans (455 700R4)alumimum rad (core 23 x 15.5) cross flow ...I started with dual 10" pullers mounted to rad without shroud...would heat up to 240 at idle and slow speeds.

I have PRW high perf water pump, gutted themostat, slightly rich jetting, total timing at 36 with MSD non vacuum advance dist.

Just bought a flex-a-lite 490 dual 12.25 fans with shroud w/ 100% seal to core. Not enough room to use as a puller (4" max thickness too close to water pump and PS pump).. so I spent $400 on this 3000 cfm setup as it is designed to be a pusher as well as a puller ...just finished install as pusher. I relocated trans cooler to behind radiator 1" off radiator (built a aluminum frame to hold) to keep from heat transfer.

Hope to test tonight ... if this fails I'll recheck pump to plate clearance...if that is not an issue ... I am out of ideas!

Hope the .060 over bore on the 1975 455 is not the issue...as the 6X heads were on my GTO with no issue prior to the Edlebrock swap.

Please let me know how your cooling is working and the setup.

Thanks


Todd

Originally Posted by Radman

The core measures 12 3/8 tall 24 1/2 wide. I ordered 2 12 inch fans that are rated at 1200 CFM each. That will give me 2400 CFM in fan and cover 78% of the core surface. If that dosn't work it will be building a custom fan shroud and going to a mechanical fan. Then changing the 2 fans to pusher type and mount them on the front. The radiator is a US Radiator Optima with the triflow option. That is a sectioned upper and lower around the core that forces the fluid to make 3 passes from in to out. It is also a 4 core radiator.

[ponjohn]

The Lincoln MK8 fan is reported to move 4500cfm.

[Formulabruce]

have you put an IR gun on the T stat housing? ( 20 bucks for a pen style one at radio shack) are you REALLY at 240? factory gauges can be off by 7% , and with aftermarket senders, that can increase.
if your CR is at 9:1 or lower ,a factory cooling with correct plugs would cool this engine
Some "solutions" ( a too fast water pump) can actually hinder cooling...
Run a 160 T stat, its cheap and restricts the flow some so you CAN exchange the heat in that radiator
good luck!

[xlrate]

Finished install of the Flex-a-lite 490 fans as pushers. Relocated Trans cooler on alum standoff bracket 1" behind radiator (towards engine). Decided to check water pump divider clearance and found that I had 1/8" gap between vanes and divider plate. Messaged the plate with plastic hammer to within .050 to vanes checked with feeler gauges.

Took for a test spin to gas station 5+ miles and putted into neighbor hood and let car idle in drive for 5 min. Temp got up to 180 on my elec rally gauge and 185 on my cheap $15 Autozone mechanical (if I had done this previously I would see a min of 230).

Weather was only 70 or so....not sure if I am out the woods but I have made Progress.

Thanks all the pointers...I'll keep this posted with updates good or bad.

- Todd

[HWYSTR455]

You running vacuum advance?

What's your initial advance?

What's your timing at idle?

.

[xlrate]

Hwystr455,

I had a custom dist with adjust vac advance in car before. Had it checked out and a local guy recurved i didn't like results seem to move around though 2k to 3.5k so I removed.

I installed a new out of box 8563 msd pro billet dist and set total timing at 36 this dist has no vac advance

Not sure what idle timing is but I will check

Do you have a recommendation. 455 over .06 , 6x-8 heads 9.4 comp, ram air 4 cam, performer intake and edelbrock 800 cfm carb, ram air exh manifolds, 700r4, 3000 stall, 3.55 gear

[HWYSTR455]

Gotta use vacuum advance, period. If you want to test and see if it will make a difference, crank your initial timing up to like 20, turn the idle to like 1000, and see where your temp is. Bet you will see normal temps.

Another option is to use a computer controlled curve using a box. A couple out there now allow for MAP sensor inputs, to simulate vacuum advance. I believe the new 6a boxes do, and there are the original Accel 300+/375 boxes too. Those you can find inexpensive. Lock out your distributor and you can control advance, total, rate, and vacuum from the touch of a button. Can adjust while you drive.

If you want one, I have a brand new 300+ and 375 Accel setup, can sell cheap. I bought some while they were clearing stock at a part depot. PM me.

Easier solution is to use an electronic dizzy with adjustable vacuum can. More trial and error, but can be done easy with minimal parts.

I say initial should be like 12-16, or more, total should be 32-36, and rate something like all in by 2800. In your previous attempt, 'moving around' was most likely due to OD, and the drop in RPM. Bet the mech advance was moving around at cruise.

.

[moneypit]

Originally Posted by xlrate

Hwystr455,

I had a custom dist with adjust vac advance in car before. Had it checked out and a local guy recurved i didn't like results seem to move around though 2k to 3.5k so I removed.

I installed a new out of box 8563 msd pro billet dist and set total timing at 36 this dist has no vac advance

Not sure what idle timing is but I will check

Do you have a recommendation. 455 over .06 , 6x-8 heads 9.4 comp, ram air 4 cam, performer intake and edelbrock 800 cfm carb, ram air exh manifolds, 700r4, 3000 stall, 3.55 gear

Did you change the springs and bushing on your 8563? I am having the same issue. I bought my 8563 used and just plugged it in. Last night I checked and it was still set-up with the factory curve. I had to order a new cap so I haven't been able to check the results yet.

[1967Tempest]

I also think it is combo specific.

I have a 67 Tempest with a 77 400 30 over torker 2 with a holley 670 4 speed with 18* initial 36 toal with 20* vacuum on ported. 110* on the highway and the car runs the hottest at 205* ish with Lincoln Mark VIII or Thunderbird fan. Have that on a Griffen 26x19 rad with 2, 1.25" cooling tubes. With a high flow 160* t-stat. Around town I can cool the car below t-stat temp because of bypass holes. Fan covers 100% of radiator cooling fans.

This is an old picture, but looks the same.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...nwiper0003.jpg

67 Tempest wagon with 4 speed, 326 40 over performer Holley 670 12* initial 36 total and 20* on vacuum ported with Summit $8.00 180* t-stat with Dodge Stratus fans, the car runs 188* no matter what. Highway ay 70, in town at 35, gauge never moves. The fans cover about 70% of radiator cooling fins on a Griffin 26X19 with 2, 1" tubes.

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...psd9bbad6c.jpg

[Formulabruce]

Unless your heads have been ported and worked, the RA4 cam is a bit much for that combo..
youll be tunning and fussing with it and it will run different every day the weather changes.. ( pressure, humidity) and it will run rich, just to make it seem like its smoother because that cam is designed for 10:1 engine with premium REAL gasoline..
A XE262 Comp cam looks like it would match the combo better.. IMHO... and run cooler..

[HWYSTR455]

An XE262 would be a nightmare with that static CR, would push the DCR way over the top. Intake closing event is like 49-52 ATDC.

It would be better to get the grind specific for that 'ram air 4' cam. Many call any one of a million cams a 'ram air 4' cam.

.

[xlrate]

I ran the ra 4 cam in my 455 with 6x8 heads 9.2 comp in my 66 gto for 10 years ran flawlessly with my tripower. Rhoads lifters help I could run 89 octane all day long.

Move this top end to the 63 discussed above after the e head upgrade