[68lemans462]

Guys,
I've been having a problem with the ford starter solenoid setup in a buddy's car. Basically, the solenoid is sticking and will not disengage intermittently.. We have tested this thing inside out, including trying a different solenoid. What might cause this to happen? The 12v wire that triggers the solenoid is disengaging when the key is not in the "start" position. What else would cause this? Bad ground?? We have also replaced all starter cables and everything else is brand new and in order....... Suggestions??

[Geoff]

Unless this is a trick question............

[1] Return spring broken or lost tension. Some spring or spring type material is used to disengage the electrical contacts when power is removed.

[2] Solenoid plunger is sticking due to build up of crud.

[3] Residual magnetism [ possible, but [1] or [2] more likely ]. The plunger develops a 'memory' due to a build of residual magnetism & sticks in the on position.

[BAD455TA]

Make sure you have gone through all of the wiring. Here is a guide to help...http://www.novaresource.org/starter.htm

Good luck

[toomanybirds]

If you have tried 2 Ford solenoids and the starter still sticks, it is not the Ford solenoid causing the problem.

More likely, the starter is staying engaged due to a problem with the starter and/or starter solenoid. Reasons for a sticking starter include: binding or sticking of the solenoid plunger/linkage, broken or weak plunger return spring, defective starter solenoid, binding beteen starter drive gear and flywheel ring gear.

I have found that many times the Ford solenoind is not wired in the most effective way. I have seen instructions on the web and in publications that show the Ford solenoid wired in a way that just makes it a second ignition switch. The link referenced in the post by BAD455TA is an example of this wiring technique. This wiring method works, but doesn't take full advantage of the use of the Ford solenoid.

If the solenoid is wired in the same way as it is on Ford cars and trucks, it works very well, and it is simpler. Only a single heavy gauge cable is run to the starter from the Ford solenoid, and it is only hot when the starter is cranking. There is no need for a second "solenoid" wire. (A short jumper wire connects the Batt terminal to the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid) Wired this way, the starter can't stick, or stay engaged, even if there is a problem with the starter. Also, there is no risk of a hot header melting a starter wire or cable and causing a fire.

This is a link to a wiring diagram for a Ford truck, it is a little hard to read, but it shows proper wiring of the starter solenoid. http://www.fordification.com/images/...ing-gauges.jpg

Here are the Ford solenoid connections:
A terminal, connected to the battery positive terminal (large cable)
B terminal, connected to the starter solenoid "Batt" terminal (large cable)
S terminal, connected to the purple "solenoid" wire from the ignition switch
I terminal, not needed on most Pontiacs as they have an ignition switch terminal (ign 2) that provides un-resisted current to the ignition coil during cranking

(For Pontiacs that used a wire from the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid to the ignition coil, move this wire to the "I" terminal on the Ford solenoid)

Sidenote: Fords with the 429 and 460 engines used a Delco starter, but also used the Ford solenoid on the fender wired as described above. I am sure there is a website showing this, but I did not take time to find it for this post.

[Geoff]

Toomanybirds,
The link you provided showing the Ford sol hook up will NOT work on a GM starter & I am assuming post #1 is talking about a Pontiac or Chev with a factory starter. The diagram in the link shows just the main bat cable connected to the main terminal post on the starter. A GM starter requires an additional wire to the 'S' terminal to energise the internal solenoid. Otherwise the starter will spin, but the gear will not engage the ring gear.

[toomanybirds]

Well, I guess I could say "trust me, it works" or "try it, you'll like it" but seriously, it does work and it works well.

It will not work without a jumper wire between the "batt" terminal and the "s" terminal on the solenoid. (Fords that use a Delco starter use a copper strap between the terminals).

Connecting the battery cable to only the "batt" terminal will not cause the starter to spin without engaging the ring gear. Actually, nothing will happen if you do this. On the other hand, if you connect to or jumper to the bottom terminal on the solenoid, the starter will spin without engaging. I am not suggesting this be done.

Maybe it will help to describe the function of the solenoid. There are two sets of windings in the solenoid, the pull in coil and the hold in coil. The pull in coil is connected to the "S" terminal, when battery voltage is applied through the igniition switch, the plunger "pulls in," engages the drive gear, and closes the circuit between the "batt" terminal and the starter motor. At the same time, the hold in coils are energized to "hold in" the plunger, otherwise the voltage drop from cranking would cause the solenoid to disengage and cranking would stop or rapidly click on and off, like happens with a low battery.

When the solenoid "pull in" coils begin to break down from heat or age, the coils require more current to move the plunger and activate the starter. When the solenoid breaks down far enough, the starter won't engage with the ignition switch. But if you jump the "batt" and "s" terminals on the starter with a screw driver, it will crank. It is commonly assumed that the ignition switch is bad when this happens, but it is not. It happens because there is some voltage drop or current loss through the wire harness and ignition switch. Just enough current loss to prevent the weak solenoid from engaging.

If you use a Ford solenoid as I have described, (and as Ford uses it in their cars and trucks), the starter solenoid will engage even when it is weakened by age or heat. That is why I said it works better when wired that way. Obviously, when the solenoid is bad, it wouldn't work no matter how it was connected.

That is how it works. Try it and you will see that it works quite well.

[BVR421]

Originally Posted by toomanybirds

Well, I guess I could say "trust me, it works" or "try it, you'll like it" but seriously, it does work and it works well. It will not work without a jumper wire between the "batt" terminal and the "s" terminal on the solenoid. (Fords that use a Delco starter use a copper strap between the terminals).

Thats by far the best use of the ford relay. I have 3 cars wired that way (bat cable only to starter) and its fool proof. The purple wire that used to activate the delco solinoid is pulled back up and is now used to activate the the ford relay. I also like that it keeps the long starter cable at zero voltage until the key is turned to start and the ford relay is activated.

[67cruiser]

Just asking to try and understand how your wiring this up,?? I have a HEI SET-UP IN MY 67 GTO, all i did was one side of Sel. went wire from Batt. offer large post went to starter and only wire, purple wire went to s and red the other, then i accually ran a jumper from one side to my HEI TO ACHIEVE A FULL 12 VOLTS, NO FUSS works like a dream.

[sts]

I assume that op refers to a ford because I'm supposed to be a mindreader. This is one of the many classic reasons why I quit giving technical advice. There is a lack of information and the op's never follow up, such as clairfying whether or not this is a ford set up or a gm set up. Simply, if the people who post don't gaf, why should I?

[toomanybirds]

Originally Posted by sts

I assume that op refers to a ford because I'm supposed to be a mindreader. This is one of the many classic reasons why I quit giving technical advice. There is a lack of information and the op's never follow up, such as clairfying whether or not this is a ford set up or a gm set up. Simply, if the people who post don't gaf, why should I?

I assume the original post referred to a Pontiac with a Ford solenoid since this is a Pontiac board. But it really doesn't matter since the correct answer would be the same for either one.

Answers to technical questions could be useful to anyone who reads the post, not just the original poster. As compared to posts that simply state a gripe or pet peeve and don't benefit anyone. So I hope to see you go back to giving technical advice.


67cruiser: Not sure what you are asking, if you would re-state your question, someone will try to help.