[jimib]

Next week I’ll purchase a stroker kit, aluminum heads and other parts from Kauffman Racing. I need suggestions on what to buy so I spend my $1000’s without regrets (I’m a medical guy, not mechanical by occupation). Intended use is street and interstate driving. My 67 GTO currently has a 3 speed auto but will eventually have a Tremec 5 or 6 speed. The rear is from a salvage yard Chevelle with 390 gears; this too will be replaced.

"My questions":

*The Block*

My block is the original 400 CI. My local machinist has bored it to 0.060 and has magnaflux’d the block. He states the block is good but cannot be bored any more. As I understand, a “stroker kit” (for my block) requires 0.065.

Perhaps 0.005 additional boring would be okay?
Are there any genuine advantages of spending $3000 for a new MR-1 cast iron block?
(I think an aluminum block is more than I want to spend)

*The Stroker Kit*

Please advise me on this. This will be a street car and some interstate driving. I guess the question here is the types of metals to choose from; cast, forged, 4340.

*Aluminum Heads*

Jeff Kaufman suggested high ports. I read on another forum that the torque on high ports doesn’t really kick in till after 4000 RPM. I don’t know if this is true.

Will “high port heads” even fit under my stock hood?
Can I still use the Doug’s Headers I recently bought?
Would I see the true potential of “high port heads” for a street/interstate car or should I go with the basic D-ports?

*CAM and Valve Train*

I need your input here. Currently I have stock hydraulic lifters, push rods, rockers and the CAM is a Speed-Pro (basically stock but semi-rough idle). Jeff stated for a 600 HP combo, I should buy a hydraulic roller CAM and setup. I don’t know what to choose here.

*The Intake Manifold and Carb*

I have the original intake but I guess this should be upgraded also to obtain the potential of the aluminum heads.

I have a nice rebuilt Q-Jet from Cliff Ruggles; will this Carb work with Kauffman after-market intake manifolds?
Do I need a different carb to obtain the true potentially of this build?

Thank you,
Jim

[tom s]

Is this going to be a race car?Will it be a street driven car with a track run every once in awhile?Street only car.Too much missing to even start to help.Tom

[tom s]

I will tell you a N/A 600 hp engine will not be fun on the street.Tom

[jimib]

Originally Posted by tom s

Is this going to be a race car?Will it be a street driven car with a track run every once in awhile?Street only car.Too much missing to even start to help.Tom

"Intended use is street and interstate driving"

I thought I was to the point. This will not be a car for racing.

Thank you.

[tom s]

I have a 434 with a TKO and over the years I have changed the cam and rear gears at least 3 times each.Most of my driving is street and some highway and around town with too much cam and or not enough gear it was a PITA to drive.Sounds like a good stroker 400 around 450 HP will be all you need.Alu heads and aftermarket block won't be necessary but if you want alu go the KRE D ports if you have D port headers,maybe E heads if round port.but I would still run a hyd roller in the 230-240 range @50 on a 112 and you will like it.Cliffs carb with a stock intake would be a good street driver.Your wallet will dictate if you want a cast or forged crank but would do forged rods and Pistons.Tom

[ponyakr]

I agree that the HP heads are overkill for what you want. If you go with alum heads, I also agree on the KRE D-ports.

http://www.krepower.com/Pontiac%20Al...er%20Heads.htm

But, if you will be doing a lot of cold weather driving, you may need the Edelbock D-Ports. They have the heat riser holes which transfers heat to an intake which has a heat crossover. This will keep the intake and carb warmer, which will help, in cold weather.

I think Butler has the best prices on the stroker assemblies. They also have the Edelbrock D-ports, in any stage of performance you could want.

http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/products/...s.html#461_467

http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/products/...inumD_Port.htm

If your cylinder walls are so thin that they will not go .005 bigger, I'd consider finding another block that will go .030-.035 over. The '71 thru early '75 casting #481988 400 blocks are the most plentiful decent blocks for a stroker build.

Or, you may wanna consider buying a crate shortblock, or entire engine.
Len Williams sells a cast crank, H-beam rod 400 block stroker shortblock, for $3395 + shipping. You may not be able to beat that price locally.

http://lenwilliamsautomachine.com/455_Short_Block.html

Sandoval sells one for $3495 +.

http://www.sandovalperformance.com/#...s-starting-%40

Most consider a small hyd roller better than a flat tappet. The price difference is about $1000. You can easily make over 400hp and 500ft lbs of torque, with a decent flat tappet and iron heads. Add some alum D-ports and get at least 450hp. Add a decent roller and get around 500hp or more. It just depends on how much power you want and how much you wanna spend.

http://www.sdperformance.com/viewPro...productID=1815

http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/products/...compcams3.html

KRE shows several nice rollers, about a 3rd of the way down the page, on this link.

http://www.krepower.com/Pontiac%20Ca...nd%20Parts.htm


"...Are there any genuine advantages of spending $3000 for a new MR-1 cast iron block?..."

YES ! There are lots of advantages. If you have the extra $$ to spend, go for it. Paul Spotts shows a 505 partial shortblock for $6190. The only disadvantages I can think of are price and weight.

http://www.spottsperformance.com/IA2%20engine%20block2

[Nicks67GTO]

For what you're doing just look into the good old 290cfm SD ported aluminum heads and stump puller or old faithful hydraulic roller. I think the stump puller/head combo is supposed to be good for 500hp/550tq and the OF combo is 550hp/600 ft lbs. Both are supposed to be daily driveable with huge flat tq curves.

For a carb I wouldnt even bother anymore. Check out FiTech. For $995 you can get a self learning throttle body setup that will tune itself on the fly good for 600 hp.

http://fitechefi.com/default.asp.pg-Products

Tanks inc for the stock looking EFI fuel tank/pump and you're in business

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...rod/prd419.htm

[tom s]

KISS method.Carb till you get everything ironed out then maybe make that FI change.JMO,Tom

[ponyakr]

I like the idea of a 400 block stroker, with iron heads, iron intake, and a Q-jet. Hey, this is a '67 GTO we're talkin about. It don't have to be numbers matching. But, it would be cool to have it look sorta stock, but have 400+ pump gas hp, and 500+ft lbs of torque.

You know, the old "sleeper" type build. And it can be done for about $6000 or so.

OR, you can go with aftermarket stuff, spend $10,000 or more and not look anything like stock. There are a lot of options. So, I'll just repeat what many others say" It's your car and your money, so build it like you want it.

[jimib]

Butler Performance said they should have my build ready in six months. Come this early August will be six months (as this thread) so I hope to have it by August or September. Meanwhile; I need space in my garage. Butler will be using a replacement block, new heads and intake. There's very little remaining of the original engine.

My original 400 block has been bored 0.060. Can this sell for anything or should I take it to the metal scrap yard? I’ll also be selling the rebuilt heads and intake manifold. I hate to part with my 67 GTO’s original parts but I only have a 2-car garage. They are too heavy to use as ornaments hanging on the wall. (-:

[ponyakr]

"...My original 400 block has been bored 0.060. Can this sell for anything or should I take it to the metal scrap yard? I’ll also be selling the rebuilt heads and intake manifold...

I'd think long and hard before selling those parts, IF they are indeed the original numbers matching parts. If you ever decide to sell, those parts will make your car worth more. Some collector types won't even consider a car that is not numbers matching.

Even tho it may not bore .065, if it'll bore .060, that's good enuff for a mild rebuild, for restoration purposes. Would even be worth it if it needed some sleeves. Hey, numbers matching don't mean much to me. But, it's just a fact that it does mean a lot in the world of old Musclecars.

[tom s]

For sure the block,it is the only part with the vin number.Tom

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by tom s

For sure the block,it is the only part with the vin number.Tom

There is a guy on another forum who can't find the VIN or partial VIN on his original '67 block. Another guy said his didn't have one either.

http://www.firebirdnation.com/forums...ine/?p=1389345

So, were ALL '67 blocks supposed to have either a full or partial VIN stamped on them. If so, was the stamp located in the same place as on the later year models ?

I've Googled pages of Pontiac engine ID info. What I have found is that some sites say the early '67 blocks had the full VIN stamped on 'em. Some say the late '67 blocks had the partial VIN stamped on 'em.

And, some say none of the '67's had a VIN or partial VIN number stamped on 'em, but that the partial VIN engine stamp started with the '68 year model vehicles. If this is so, that means that lots of these engines were built in '67, for the early '68 year model cars. Maybe this is what some mean when they say this started with the late '67 engines.

I don't have a clue what the truth about this is. But, I do know that opinions differ, and online info only confuses the issue.

[jimib]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

"...My original 400 block has been bored 0.060. Can this sell for anything or should I take it to the metal scrap yard? I’ll also be selling the rebuilt heads and intake manifold...

I'd think long and hard before selling those parts, IF they are indeed the original numbers matching parts. If you ever decide to sell, those parts will make your car worth more. Some collector types won't even consider a car that is not numbers matching.

Even tho it may not bore .065, if it'll bore .060, that's good enuff for a mild rebuild, for restoration purposes. Would even be worth it if it needed some sleeves. Hey, numbers matching don't mean much to me. But, it's just a fact that it does mean a lot in the world of old Musclecars.

I bought this car in 1979 at age 18. I’m the 3rd owner of this GTO. The block, heads and manifold are matching numbers. You have a good point. Maybe I should consider renting a storage area. I just need the space, not the money.

[AdamIsAdam]

What about a small shed? Cheaper than storage area.

[jimib]

WOW, I started the thread in January of 2016. Great advice from all throughout the year…..Thank you.

I am now in the poor house but the delighted owner of a new power house for my 67 GTO (seven months in waiting). Cosmetically; this monster is outstanding (thank you Butler Performance). The shipping packing was outstanding; took me 30 minutes to un-do-it.

During the build, Butler Performance would call to inform me of small glitches and make suggestions on best modifications. They would always let me know of price variations. Butler is a quality; “AMERICAN” made company with outstanding customer service.

On the advice of Butler, I had them install a Holly double pumper over the Quadrajet that Cliff Ruggles built for me. Cliff does fantastic work and built me an exceptional Quadrajet (another fantastic American mode company). The Quadrajet worked incredibly well on the Dyno machine but did have small performance issues during hard acceleration and high RPM; this is to be expected on this build. This engine has a stroker kit and 550 HP and 550 Torque. Cliff’s Qaudrajet worked almost perfectly on this high end motor and Butler said it would work great as a street car but I wanted that little extra horse power (that I will never use (-: ). As a carb for a stock engine; it would be fantastic.

Being that I currently have storage space; I’ll keep the original block, heads and intake manifold. The new Quadrajet from Cliff Ruggles, I’ll probably sell.

[GT182]

Looks great Jim. If yours had airbrushed flames on the nose/sides and 66 grills I'd swear it was my GTO. That red is a very close match to my 66.



Seeing your is inside and mine outside it's a little harder to tell, but it is really close. What color paint did you use?