[dci]

Found this ad on racingjunk.com and thought I would share this for those that think Pontiac race prepped heads cost to much. I know that we don't race Prostocks, but for our top of the line heads that are available right now. The cost is very reasonable and well within reach of most weekend racers. The reason I use these as an example is because these are very limited production like our high end Pontiac heads. Not exactly an apple to apple comparison, but allot closer than an off the shelf Brodix or AFR head that some want to compare our race prepped heads to. Custom tailored QUALITY parts cost time, which in turn cost money!!!

Let the beechin and cryin begin!!!!!!!




Classifieds :: Engine Parts :: Heads

4.9 DRCE-2 A.JOHNSON CNC Port Heads&Shaft
New Best Money can Buy

Ad #2394348 Posted:2011-12-04 01:19:58
View Extra Large Photos

This ad expires in 18 days.
$20,000.00


Brand new 4.9 DRCE-2 Heads and Intake and shaft mounted rocker all from Alan Johnson RON MIller Wedge program 1430 HP on 500cid 27,000 invested sell for 20,000


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-628-3354 cell
330-850-5050 shop
Designer of the DCI TIGER Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads!!!!

[cgeise]

Don - I know you have seen the sliding scale when it comes to HP for dollar spent -- those last 20 to 40 hp cost a TON -

[Ron H]

358 sbc 10 Hours, 56 Minutes ago
dart heads, new 3.50 cranks, 6.0 hbeam rods,crane rockers, custom 4/7 swap cam, 670, 707 lift,brodix intake, 950 carb, msd crank trigger and dist, new flexplate and balancer. $5800

Don, I am not sure anyone questions the cost of the all out effort stuff. You have to also define what "race prepped" heads actually are. It is moreso the average 650 hp engines that take a cnc ported essentially off the shelf set of heads and intake that is still somewhat high for Pontiacs. Albeit they are more affordable now with more choices available.

Can a complete Pontiac engine be sold for the cost of this one?

[Ron H]

Actually, for the same money shown on those heads, others have spent on Pontiacs and are making 300 less HP. So I wouldn't say cheap in comparison.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Those heads need to be CNC'd.

[J.C.you]

there probably would be some takers at 20 if a poncho could make 1430@500cubes N/A. Heck, there would be takers that run other brands too!

[Brian Baker]

So, now we're comparing an all-out Pontiac race head to an all-out NHRA Pro Stock race head and saying "see? our heads aren't that expensive after all"?

$27K for 1430-HP at 500 cubic inches is still galaxies apart from what Langer and Rex have been running, and how much do you think they have invested in their heads? Sorry, but I find the assertion of this thread to be ridiculous.

[Half-Inch Stud]

@ $14/HP, the Seller should trow in the cam huh.

[dci]

Ridiculous yes, but that is my point. Limited production of anything whether it's Prostock heads, barbie dolls, or wigit's. When the numbers are low and the quality high, they cost more money to do. I am not saying that anyone should or would spend $27,000 on a set of traditional Pontiac heads. All I am saying is that we as vendors who invest huge amounts of money into equipment, rent, taxes and so many other things to numerous to list here. Cannot on a ones y twos y type production basis provide a quality product cheaply. I would love to produce a product for our little community as inexpensively as other company's do for Chevy and Ford's, but lets face facts. Even they have to charge more when it is a limited production type product. That is all that I'm trying to point out here. If you look at how I presented this, you will see that I said not apples to apples.
I doubt very much that anyone has invested $27,000 at any one time into a set of Pontiac heads to have them professionally prepared. We are a long way from that level of performance with our beloved traditional Pontiac engines and their limited bore spacing. Maybe some day if some of us here can get past the fact, that to move to the next level we need to move the bores, but that's a whole other topic in it's self.




Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-628-3354 cell
330-850-5050 shop
Designer of the DCI TIGER Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads!!!!

[GTO Dan]

Well said Don

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by dci

Ridiculous yes, but that is my point. Limited production of anything whether it's Prostock heads, barbie dolls, or wigit's. When the numbers are low and the quality high, they cost more money to do. I am not saying that anyone should or would spend $27,000 on a set of traditional Pontiac heads. All I am saying is that we as vendors who invest huge amounts of money into equipment, rent, taxes and so many other things to numerous to list here. Cannot on a ones y twos y type production basis provide a quality product cheaply. I would love to produce a product for our little community as inexpensively as other company's do for Chevy and Ford's, but lets face facts. Even they have to charge more when it is a limited production type product. That is all that I'm trying to point out here. If you look at how I presented this, you will see that I said not apples to apples.
I doubt very much that anyone has invested $27,000 at any one time into a set of Pontiac heads to have them professionally prepared. We are a long way from that level of performance with our beloved traditional Pontiac engines and their limited bore spacing. Maybe some day if some of us here can get past the fact, that to move to the next level we need to move the bores, but that's a whole other topic in it's self.




Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-628-3354 cell
330-850-5050 shop
Designer of the DCI TIGER Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads!!!!

I see your point from this perspective, but when I read your first post, I saw "see? our heads aren't that expensive after all".

Widening the bore spacing is going to be lost on Pontiac faithful (including me)...just because you can hang a factory timing cover off the front doesn't make it a Pontiac, and it isn't really a "next step" when you're essentially copying what is already available out there from the "Chevy" camp.

[WARPed]

Years ago I too would had cried fowl if anything but stock type parts save the usual cam/intake/header upgrades. But as time marched on the pool of parts can only get smaller. Then Edelbrock came out with the E heads and opened up the door for our Pontiacs for other aftermarket parts. Now we have a whole new world and our performance level have grown leaps and bonds because of it. We as Pontiac lovers should be embracing ALL fascist of Pontiac development rather than trying to stifle it. Just because one person’s view of what constituted a Pontiac is different from another’s should not come into play because ANYTHING move Pontiac forward helps ALL Pontiac as a whole.


Discloser: The meds for my kidney infection responsible for any and all misspelling

[Region Warrior]

Dont care if have all aftermarket as long as more power and strong enough to hold it.
Just basic Pontiac look'n fine with me.

[bryansMtngto]

Originally Posted by WARPed

Years ago I too would had cried fowl if anything but stock type parts save the usual cam/intake/header upgrades. But as time marched on the pool of parts can only get smaller. Then Edelbrock came out with the E heads and opened up the door for our Pontiacs for other aftermarket parts. Now we have a whole new world and our performance level have grown leaps and bonds because of it. We as Pontiac lovers should be embracing ALL fascist of Pontiac development rather than trying to stifle it. Just because one person’s view of what constituted a Pontiac is different from another’s should not come into play because ANYTHING move Pontiac forward helps ALL Pontiac as a whole.


Discloser: The meds for my kidney infection responsible for any and all misspelling

X2 Agreed

[azbirds]

Make it longer and fatter by an inch, and drop the deck down an inch. Just call it cast iron relocation technology.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by WARPed

Years ago I too would had cried fowl if anything but stock type parts save the usual cam/intake/header upgrades. But as time marched on the pool of parts can only get smaller. Then Edelbrock came out with the E heads and opened up the door for our Pontiacs for other aftermarket parts. Now we have a whole new world and our performance level have grown leaps and bonds because of it. We as Pontiac lovers should be embracing ALL fascist of Pontiac development rather than trying to stifle it. Just because one person’s view of what constituted a Pontiac is different from another’s should not come into play because ANYTHING move Pontiac forward helps ALL Pontiac as a whole.


Discloser: The meds for my kidney infection responsible for any and all misspelling

I ain't gettin' behind no God damn fascist.

I know what you meant, but couldn't resist...hope you are feeling better soon.

[Dragncar]

I am all for "stretching" a Pontiac and still calling it a Pontiac. As long as the far ends of the head gasket surface are still close enough to factory location it would still be the same size engine on the outside.
There is enough room to get 1/4" more space between the middle cylinders and that would mean 4.5-4.6 bores. If you could do that and not eat head gaskets.
I think thats sort of what Lynn is trying to do with his big full race RAV deal.

That engine would still be the same size on the outside, still have the Pontiac 4 bolt valve cover.
Those bow tie guys have no problem calling just about any custom BBC a Chevy. And "nothing" is in stock location.
What if someone made a nice short deck Pontiac where we could have small main bearings, light crank and rods where we could have a shot at making 1400HP with inline 500cfm heads. I would call it a Pontiac.
As long as you are not stretching the whole engine to the length of a BBC or BBF I am cool with it.
Why hold Pontiacs back.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Those bow tie guys have no problem calling just about any custom BBC a Chevy. And "nothing" is in stock location.
What if someone made a nice short deck Pontiac where we could have small main bearings, light crank and rods where we could have a shot at making 1400HP with inline 500cfm heads. I would call it a Pontiac.

Such "brand evolution" cannot be remotely legit when a given CORPORATION is long dead!

When was the last OEM Pontiac V8 cast again... LOL
I'd say if a party cannot get'er done within ten years of when the CORP was doing it.. game over!!

Some hillbilly with a ton of cash (they are out there) cannot design and cast a new block and heads with pro-stock type parameters and slap a Studebaker label to it.

You really want to do it and PLAY with the big boys?
Get all them boys to pool their cash together, then buy the "Pontiac" trademark from GM!
good luck with that.
otherwise I'd be all for GM slapping a lawsuit to said parties for trademark infringement
the same as anyone out there trying to misrepresent.

I'm not into pretending, daydreaming, "what ifs" and what "could be" ... DO IT!

PS Buick Encore coming 2013

[pastry_chef]

1981 (last OEM Poncho V8)

This song was # 23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD8s6w_COYM

the space shuttle program had its first flight.

that was before the TV series Knight Rider..

[p4msi1]

I just finished buying tiger heads and IA2 block, crank, ect... if this bigger spread bore "Pontiac" block, crank, heads, ect, were available I would have bought that set up, enjoyed 600+ cubic inches and still called it a Pontiac just like the chevy boys call theirs a chevy. You traditional fanatics need to get off the backs of forward thinkers like Don Johnston, Kauffman and All Pontiac. The more we buy their superior products the more old iron junk we sell to you and THAT you should be thankful for. Pontiac was a legend in the begining because it was fast and competitive but lost that edge because they did not keep up with the competition toward 1970. I believe they gave up and rode on that legend as long as they could while building junk people didn't want then eventually out of business. If we don't "Keep Up" then I won't run a pontiac because I have a competitive spirit that I will not deny. So bring on the spread bore blocks, heads and such, call it what you want but lets not follow the leader, be the leader.
Again for you iron heads I am posting in the "RACE" section, that means NOT the street section. I would certainly support traditional factory parts as well as aftermarket stuff in the "Street" section. I just get tired of the bickering and nit picking.

Steve