[RamAir]

Pretty tempting field find. This car was sold by my Dad's dealership and I think it may of been a 'brass hat' car. Shouldn't the PHS have a SJ option code? It certainly has all the SJ equipment. Guy wants $5k for it and claims original drivetrain and components except diff has been swapped out. The sheet metal is gone and he has a front clip he will sell as well.

[blubomber]

It certainly has all the "stuff" to be an SJ car although the 428 appears to be the 370 hp edition, not the 390 hp HO edition.

Power seat and recllining passenger bucket are rare to find.

AM/FM stereo is a a big deal back then.

PM sent

[Ram4king]

Way too much money. Only worth around 15k when finished and will take around 30 to make it a car. Very difficult car to restore. Also its not an sj. That's why the 428 is listed on phs. It would not be listed as its part of the sj package.

[north]

Hate to say it but it sure looks like a parts car. Nicely optioned but that is not unusual on a GP. If the interior and other options are in nice shape (doesn't look that way) then a donor body might be an idea but as Ram4King says, these cars are cheap mint so why try to fix this one, HO 4 speed maybe but otherwise they are mid teen cars no matter how nice.

As for it being an SJ I believe it is and isn't. I've seen many cars like this one (all early production) that have every part of the SJ package..
428-370
fiberglass tires
gauges
lightgroup
auto leveler
but not showing the SJ on the PHS

What I've read is that Pontiac ran out of SJ emblems due to much higher than expected demand and/or supplier difficulties. So when an SJ was ordered they built it as such with the dealer later switching the emblems.

My own opinion is that there was some kind of billing and/or ordering problem that resulted in the individual components being billed instead of the package code. Every PHS I've seen like this was a very early car (none after first week of October)

Final possibility is that some crafty dealers figured out is that the SJ package cost $33.71 more than the total of its components so they ordered them accordingly and swapped in 3 emblems which cost less than $10.00 total. Sounds like not much but $20 then is like $200 now.

[north]

love those first gen T/A's!

['ol Pinion head]

Agree with Don. Have had a bunch of '69 & '70 SJ's, and as rough projects they just don't make a lot of sense to restore, so cut them up. Only one I've mothballed to restore is a heavy loaded matador red '69 390 horse J, just too pretty a car done.

[blubomber]

I spoke with a friend who informed me that even though it is not listed as an SJ it very well may be. He told me that the early production cars, and this one is, did not list that info on the build sheet. I can't see if there are any SJ badges on the lower fenders or on the interior console.
I see that headrests are also listed as an option since it is a pre Jan 1969 built car. After that date they were mandatory safety items.
I see that the 428 option code is 347. I am not sure if that is the 428 HO option or not but the HO option was not a mandatory SJ feature IIRC.

I have to agree on the economics of the car as stated however I'd never stand in the way of man and his labor of love. Still this one could suck up A LOT of money very, very fast. 5K for this unit is way overpriced IMO. Parting it may be the most humane way to go.

[428ho4spd]

Very cool car here with great options and color combo, but like others have mentioned it would certainly have to be a labor of love to bring it back.

I too have seen this with a few with early built '69 GP's... no SJ option listed on the invoice, but is optioned as an SJ otherwise. I was able to contact the original owner of one of my late built '69s that was optioned this way and he flat out told me that it was cheaper to order all of the options separately on the Model J including the HO engine upgrade.

[Matt Meaney]

I remember reading, that there were no early build SJ's, due to a lack of availability of the emblem. pretty sure it was in the royal bobcat road test article, but not 100% sure. don't know how accurate that info is, but would be a good explanation.

[RamAir]

Thanks for all the responses. I've decided to pass on the project and the seller said he doesn't want to sell it anyway. He did say there is an SJ badge on the console which leads me to believe it is an SJ.

[blubomber]

Thanks for the update.
Any chance you could get some additional pictures of the interior and engine compartment? guys are always looking to see what "original" looked like.
Please let the owner know about this web site if he does change his mind about selling or parting the car.

[Keith Vrabec]

SJ should be listed in the invoice as a package.

group 324 should be listed if it were a factory SJ.

I don't see the 324 listed.

[Keith Vrabec]

348 is 390 hp engine
SJ cars had 370 hp engine as part of the package, HO engine was optional

[north]

I just realized I made a mistake about the SJ package that removes a few possibilities from why some cars were missing the SJ option on the PHS despite having all the components, also included were power disc brakes...

347 428 4 bbl $67.40
PK2 G78 fiberglass $66.35
511 power disc brakes $71.62
544 auto level control $78.99
651 cornering lamps $33,70
671 underhood lamp $3.21
484 gauges & clock $31.60
Total $353.87

$37.91 more than the cost of the SJ package. So we can safely remove dealers or customers ordering the individual components to save money.

So to me it was either an emblem problem as mentioned or a bug they had to work out of the billing system.

[428ho4spd]

Another thing to consider is that all 428 equipped GP's were built with mandatory safe-t-track rear diff in the first few months of production, after that they made it optional.

Grant

[north]

Originally Posted by 428ho4spd

Another thing to consider is that all 428 equipped GP's were built with mandatory safe-t-track rear diff in the first few months of production, after that they made it optional.

Grant

I've noticed that but I think it is a 428 thing rather than an SJ thing since every early J with either 428 also has STT. Either way it was still a separate option that was charged separately. Much like early 69 Fbird 400's all had PDB.

Not sure how flexible those "unofficial mandatory" options were? Was it possible to override it? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was referred to as merchandising groupings as a way to make sure dealer inventory was as desired without having to raise base prices to cover cost of those options (psychologically important to keep base prices low). The 69 pattern Judges were a good example of this.