[b-man]

Finally sent in for my PHS documents for my long-neglected 1964 Le Mans convertible project.

Any help filling in the 'blanks' where the option codes were difficult to read would be appreciated. Some codes listed, even without question marks ??? as noted, may be inaccurate.

This car was originally finished in Saddle Bronze acrylic lacquer and equipped with a Saddle interior and a Saddle convertible top. It still retains the original drivetrain consisting of a 960-code 250 HP 2-barrel 326, 2-speed ST300 auto trans and 2.93 open rear. According to the PHS docs sent 7.00 x 14 Rayon WSW tires were original equipment.

Of interest is the fact that 17,559 Le Mans convertibles were produced in 1964, accounting for 7.47% of total "A" body production. Along the same line, 7,987 Tempest Custom convertibles were built along with 6,644 GTO convertibles, accounting for 3.39% and 2.83% of "A" body production respectively. So added up only 13.69% of all "A" body production consisted of convertible bodied cars.

The automatic trans standard 2-barrel 326 was produced in a quantity of 68,242 as compared to 17,317 manual-trans versions.

(Items shown in italics were barely legible at best)

Dealer(s)

24 039 888403A
CHIEFTAIN PONTIAC
120 SO. WESTERN AVE
LOS ANGELES CAL

CAR SERVICE INC
329 VAN NORMAN ROAD
MONTEBELLO, CALIF


(hand-written 953) 2/13/64 D 8853 8157 64 C 195 1031 960 269851 824FXXXXXX

12 C20764 2267 S7 Y 16 70014W2P 4? 8??????

A02 TNTED GLAS W/S

A31 PWR WIND

A49 ST BLTS FRT PR

*A50 BUC STS

B70 IP PAD/COV UPR

*C06 CONV TOP

C13 WPR ELEC

C60 AIR CON

D33 O/S REMOT MIR

D55 CONSOLE FRT FL

*F35 HD FRAME

F40 SUSP FRT/RR SP

J50 PWR BRAKES

K24 CRANCASE VENT

L90 ENG 326

M31 TORQ CONV 2/SP

*N30 STR WHL

N40 PWR STRG

*T60 BATT H/D

T86 B/U LIGHT

*U05 DUAL HORNS

U25 LAMP LUGG COMP

*U29 LAMP COURTESY

U63 RADIO P/B

[Keith Seymore]

Subscribing.

K

[Keith Seymore]

- Ok - I'm back....

(lol)

Power Steering = N40

Lamp Courtesy = U29

Radio Pushbutton = U63

I show A37 as Seat Belt - Front Pair, but this was a time of transition as front seat belts moved towards becoming standard, so their may have been some evolution in the seat belt code
(s).

C06 = Power top

C13 = Dual speed wipers

Your C50 is probably C60 = Air Conditioning. C50 is rear window defog which I suspect is not available on a convertible.

F40 = Heavy load springs and shocks

That T50 Battery HD might be T60, which is what I show.

Your T80 Backup lamps is probably T86, which is what I show.

Your U75 Lamp luggage is probably U25, which is what I show.

Lastly - I'm not seeing anything similar to that O10 Steering Wheel. There's normally a P01 Standard wheel cover; as steering wheels go Y30 is the deluxe wheel and N34 is the wood wheel.

Other than that, everything else lined up! (lol)

K

[b-man]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

- Ok - I'm back....

(lol)

Power Steering = N40

Lamp Courtesy = U29

Radio Pushbutton = U63

I show A37 as Seat Belt - Front Pair, but this was a time of transition as front seat belts moved towards becoming standard, so their may have been some evolution in the seat belt code
(s).

C06 = Power top

C13 = Dual speed wipers

Your C50 is probably C60 = Air Conditioning. C50 is rear window defog which I suspect is not available on a convertible.

F40 = Heavy load springs and shocks

That T50 Battery HD might be T60, which is what I show.

Your T80 Backup lamps is probably T86, which is what I show.

Your U75 Lamp luggage is probably U25, which is what I show.

Lastly - I'm not seeing anything similar to that O10 Steering Wheel. There's normally a P01 Standard wheel cover; as steering wheels go Y30 is the deluxe wheel and N34 is the wood wheel.

Other than that, everything else lined up! (lol)

K

Thanks Keith,

I have edited my first post and all corrections have been made. Now that you've provided some correct numbers it's easier to 'see' what some of the very faint copy shows.

The front seat belt code 'A49' is clearly printed on my PHS copy.

Since all codes are in both alphabetical and numerical order in the PHS listing I am sure the 'U55 DUAL HORNS' code is also incorrect.

Thank you.

Bart

[Keith Seymore]

Any chance you could post the document, for posterity's sake? We love seeing the handwritten notes.

It might also help with the decode for this : 12 C20764 2267 S7 Y 16 70014W2P 4? 8??????

...as I am not picturing it.

For 1965 Dual Horns = U05.

K

[b-man]

I'll try to get a scan of it and post it here.

Steering wheel code is a bit of mystery, but the last digit is pretty clearly '0'.

Doesn't look much like 'Y30' but it could be, that makes the most sense. The deluxe wheel would have been standard issue on a Le Mans. Only a super cheap no option Tempest would have the standard wheel with no horn ring, I've never seen one in person myself. Even my six-cylinder 2-speed auto Tempest coupe came with the deluxe wheel.

All the items with the asterisk * next to them must be standard equipment for the Le Mans trim line on convertibles, no? Bucket seats, convertible top, heavy duty frame, deluxe steering wheel, heavy duty battery, dual horns, courtesy lamp (front passenger compartment - map light?)

[b-man]

[b-man]

This car still retains most of the original options listed on the PHS.

The items missing are the front seat belts, outside remote mirror, luggage compartment lamp, courtesy lamp, push button AM radio, deluxe steering wheel and as you would expect the original heavy duty battery.

Have rounded up front seat belts (interestingly it had some dealer-installed rear belts still intact), a complete remote mirror in fair shape, a courtesy lamp, an AM push button radio (unsure if it works) and a good complete deluxe steering wheel in the wrong color.

I would like to find a decent luggage compartment lamp for it.

It still has the original seat upholstery and door panels, all in fair to poor shape with the seat foam completely dried out and crumbling.

The original 326 was a runner but smoking a little, it's just plain worn out with just about every accessible block freeze plug replaced with expanding rubber repair units. The 2-speed trans still worked fine, but I didn't drive it much. One rear axle from the original 2.93 rear was bent pretty badly (from slapping a curb I presume) so I replaced it.

Several years back the original driveline was set off to the side and stored in favor of a '64 GTO 79J 4-barrel engine and matching 2-speed, an open 3.23 rear was installed too.

I have since collected a 1964 421 HO 45B block and heads to build up for it along with a complete Tri-Power setup, also have a new TH400 and a good used 2.56 open rear to put in it. I want to be able to cruise between 70 and 80 in it without excessive engine RPM, I don't want get run over on the freeway as these are the normal freeway traffic speeds around here.

This car will not be a 100% correct restoration but it will be built with all 1964 interior and mechanical parts with the exception of a TH400 trans, 2-1/2" dual exhaust, dual master cylinder, 1969 GP 11" front disc brakes, 1-1/4" front and 7/8" rear sway bars and very incorrect 14X6" Hurst wheels.

[b-man]

[bill ryder]

A conv. with AC. Definitely deserves to be saved. "Bill"!

[Tom Vaught]

Looks like it could be a really good one for a "Larger Engine Swap".

Tom V.

So this is where the 45B 421 Engine is going.

Should be an outstanding California driver.

I went with a 2.75 rear gear with the 5 speed. Wanted the rpm low and the ability to cruise at 80 also.

Tom V.

[b-man]

Kind of curious why the type of hub caps or full wheel covers originally supplied with the car are not listed on the PHS.

Perhaps because it was sold and delivered with the standard 'poverty' caps which came as standard equipment, therefore no kind of full wheel cover option shown?

No listing for the 2.93 rear axle ratio either.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by bill ryder

A conv. with AC. Definitely deserves to be saved. "Bill"!

My thoughts exactly.

That and the fact that it has power windows.

Both would be fairly rare options on a convertible back then I would think.

Bart

[brut4s]

Very cool!! Anything going on with the Tempest?

[John V.]

b-man, not sure if you still have questions about the PHS. Yours is about the poorest copy of a Fremont record I've encountered. My own is not too good but eminently more legible than this one.

Some '64 Fremont records are very legible, including the box labels which makes deciphering the less legible ones a snap.

For example, yours shows:

*N30 STR WHL

All of the listed options that are prefixed with the asterisk indicate an option that was standard content for this build.

The N30 is the optional Deluxe Steering Wheel. It was optional in the 20 series Tempest. It was standard content for the 21 series Tempest Custom and 22 series Lemans, so always listed with the asterisk for them, unless the N34 Simulated Wood Custom Steering Wheel option was ordered.

On the Fremont Window Sticker, above the list of options, there is a section that says, "THE FOLLOWING ITEMS, OPTIONS, OR ACCESSORIES ON SOME MODELS ARE STANDARD EQUIPMENT ON THIS MODEL
STR WHL-DLX RING, HORNS-DUAL, BUCKET SEATS-FRONT"

So while it is listed on the Production Record, the Deluxe Steering Wheel was not an extra cost option for the Lemans series.

The Charge To dealer was Chieftain Pontiac. The Ship To location was Car Service, Inc.

This is unusual. Most cars were shipped to the same location as the Charge To. Don't know if it was standard for Chieftain Pontiac to ship to an alternate location or if perhaps this was something unique about this sale. Almost sounds like a service that arranged delivery perhaps to a remote customer on behalf of the dealer?

The 2nd line first box is labeled MODE OF TRANS and is always blank.

The 2nd box is labeled SCHEDULE NO. AND DATE.

Yours reads 12 020764

The 12 indicates the date is was intended to be started on the final line by my interpretation.

The date indicated is often the same as the date above it in a box labeled DATE PRODUCED. Sometimes a day or two late, as in the case of yours, the DATE PRODUCED shows 2/13/64 rather than 2/12/64.

The 2/7/64 date I believe is the date that Fremont put the order on the schedule.

It had to be scheduled before they could actually build it.

The D indicates the Day Shift. It is possible it was sequenced onto the Final Line as planned on the 12th but late on the night shift so that it didn't get completed until the following day shift. That is one explanation for why certain builds didn't get finished on the date planned. That is somewhat corroborated by the handwritten 953 which is very possibly the Daily Production sequence no. and is pretty high.

The two 4 digit codes on the first line are the IGN. KEY and COMP. KEY codes. Next is the TRANSMISSION NO., only the auto trannies listed the actual stamped assembly date code in this box. Yours indicates a Code C assembled on the 195th production day of the '64 Model Year. You would find this code stamped on the original trans if it was "matching nos.".

1031 is the BODY NO. and should match to the Data Plate. Means this was the 1031st Lemans Convert Body assembled by Fisher-Fremont. The BODY NO. was usually handwritten in this box, whether or not it was typed in. I don't know why, just was the typical practice. Looks like it was only typed in yours. When I say typed, it was actually done by teletypewriter, not a standard typewriter.

Next is the ENG. OR MOTOR UNIT NO., the engine code and the MUN (EUN) stamped on the block of the original Engine Assembly that was installed at final assembly. The code and MUN were stamped on at the Engine Assembly Plant before anybody knew what VIN it would eventually be associated with. The Final Plant sometimes added a stamped secondary trans code but in this build, not used.

On the 2nd line, S7 Y is the COLOR. S is Saddle Bronze body color. 7 is Saddle convertible top color, Y indicates the Wheel color as Saddle.

This indicates the car was built with the standard content hub caps (dog dish style) and confirmed by the lack of any full wheel disc option. Only the cars with hub caps got a coordinating wheel color. All builds with full wheel covers got Code A Regent Black painted wheels.

16 is the TRIM code, shorthand for the Lemans code 216 Saddle color interior.

Next is a small box labeled TOP. Only coded for Cordova top or convertible builds. Should show a 7 in this box, too faint for me to see, just a duplication of the code in the COLOR box.

70014W2R is the TIRE code, 7.00x14 2 ply rayon whitewalls. These must have been the standard tire for the V8 Lemans convertible as I do not see the whitewalls listed as an extra cost option for this build.

Next is the SPEEDO. For the auto trans it is forty something, I'm guessing 41 without looking it up.

Next is the ENG. code, I'm guessing 81 without looking it up.

Next is the TRANS, SP was a GTO auto trans code, not sure what was used for the 326 auto trans with A/C.

Next is the AXLE RATIO. This build did not include the G80 Safe-T-Track option, so it is an open differential.

If the 2.93 axle was the original the code would be C0 to indicate the open diff (0 for open, 1 for Safe-T-Track was the early year format, a little later Fremont modified how they coded this on the form) with 2.93 ratio and standard brakes.

There were a couple more labeled boxes after that but never coded.

The last box is labeled LOAD OR SEQ. NO.

In this box, Fremont typed a number that seems to be a sort of tabulation. It seems to be too faint for you to have even noticed it, but the good news, it is the same 4 digit code that also was regurgitated on the Data Plate in the lower right corner.

Since the code was only 4 digits, the nos. were recycled during the year.

In Feb. they were on the 2nd time around and around May they flipped over to the 3rd time.

Yours is probably around 3000. Since it was the 2nd time around, it was effectively 13000.

This no. will somewhat track with the VIN sequence no., not uniformly but somewhat predictably.

Your VIN sequence will be lower by about 300 units, so if the LOAD OR SEQ. NO. is 13000 (3000 on the Data Plate), the VIN will be about 824F12700.

Since the VINs started from F1001 and I believe the LOAD OR SEQ. NO. started at 0001, the "spread" is actually more like 1300 units. I've studied this but haven't figured out why the differential. The differential changed thru the year, but it is unclear why.

The Closed Circuit Positive Crankcase Vent is UPC K24.

It was required for all builds after December, '63 when sold to a Calif dealer (not all Fremont builds went to Cal dealers). It had a specific non-vented oil filler cap, a specific PCV valve, and plumbing connected to the LH side valve cover to force crankcase vapors back to the carb under certain conditions when the regular PCV valve would have closed and allowed venting thru the oil cap.

It was extra cost.

The C13 WPR ELEC is a bit of a rarity. Many got the standard content single speed wiper, many others got the optional 2 speed wipers with washers, C11.

C13 was Pontiac Sales Code 402. It is the 2 speed wipers WITHOUT washers. Kinda rare in my experience.

24 039 is Chieftain Pontiac's dealer code. You posted an extra digit, I assume a typo on your part.

John Wallace needs to pick up on this one, I don't think he has it on his list.

Let me know if there are any items you need further explanation.

[johnta1]

I added the dealer.



B-man, Can the numbers next to the left of the 'Car Services' be discerned?
(zone and dealer number for it)

It would probably be 24 and possibly a 9xx?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by b-man

I must say: I could be quite content with a '64 Lemans with those spinner hubcaps...

K

[John V.]

Some more comments.

For the Lemans convertible, the Window Sticker listed two additional "standard content" items.

These were:

LAMP-COURTESY and also POWER OPERATED TOP.

That is why C06 and U29 are asterisked.

The Power Top was optional for the Tempest Custom convertible but standard for the Lemans convertible and the Courtesy Lamp was optional on all models except the T.C convertible and Lemans convertible, standard for them.

They did not bother to indicate anything about it on the Window Sticker, but the F35 HD Frame was standard on the convertibles, so it also asterisked.

And the T60 HD Battery was asterisked as standard content on yours.

I'm not exactly sure why. Perhaps it was automatically included with the A/C option.

For GTOs, the HD Battery may have been optional early year. My late Nov '63 Fremont built GTO did not list the HD Battery. But by Feb., it seems every GTO lists the T60 HD Battery with the asterisk as standard content.

The A49 Front Pair Seat Belts w/ Retractors (the cheap-o winders) were an option. But after Dec., all GM cars included the A20 Front Pair Seat Belts, the standard ones without Retractors.

At that point, Pontiac raised the Base Price of every Model by $11 and lowered the price of the A49 option by $10.76. Effectively, after Dec. you were only paying for the winders when you ordered the A49 Sales Code 624 Custom Seat Belts w/ Retractors although the belts themselves were apparently a different style than the standard belts.

They also added an option to the Order Form so that you could order the Seat Belt Delete option and get an $11 credit to offset the price increase. This was rarely ordered.

I glanced over your production nos.

The GTO option was added to the base Lemans of course.

Do you know for sure that the production nos. you listed for the Lemans convertibles excluded the GTO convertibles?

I have never seen production nos. except for the GTO so I am curious if your nos. are accurate.

I believe on the Data Plate, they did not separate the GTO convertible Body count from the Lemans convertible Body count.

I do believe they DID separate the Tempest Custom convertible Body count from the Lemans convertible on the Data Plate.

But I was not aware that production nos. were available separating the GTO from the Lemans. Only way I knew to estimate the nos. was from the Data Plate using the Body No. counts from each Plant but those would have lumped the Lemans and GTO counts together.

One more item, the 2 bbl 326 was UPC L30.

[John V.]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I added the dealer.



B-man, Can the numbers next to the left of the 'Car Services' be discerned?
(zone and dealer number for it)

It would probably be 24 and possibly a 9xx?

John, I was doubting the possibility of this being a Zone storage location.

Not sure what exists at the Van Norman address today.

Doesn't seem to be any nos. typed into the Ship To boxes which include boxes labeled TAG, ZONE, and DEALER.

These boxes just to the left of the word PONTIAC which was preprinted as part of the form itself and which you can faintly make out.

If Bart can detect any nos. typed in those boxes would be great but I think they are blank.

Then I spotted this at the Ultimate GTO Dealer Zone list.

20-991, Pontiac Motor Division, 329 Van Norman Rd., Montebello, CA.

No way can a location in Montebello (adjacent to East L.A.) be part of the Oklahoma City Zone, can it? But this was reported from a record for a '69 Judge.

In 2000, it looks like a company called Pacific Western Warehousing & Distribution, LLC occupied the 329 Van Norman location to unload rail cars delivering steel from mills, they then delivered the product by truck as needed to local accounts.

I'm betting this was a rail yard in 1964 too and Car Service, Inc. was used to receive cars for various dealers by rail and then delivered them by truck to the dealer facility.

Probably was more economical to ship by rail from Fremont to the rail yard and then local truck to the dealer.

In this case, no dealer code would have been assigned to this company, they were just a freight handler.

Chieftain Pontiac would have instructed PMD to ship to this location by rail and then they would have arranged the delivery from the rail yard to the dealership directly with Car Service, Inc.

That's my take. How this Montebello location was involved with that '69 Judge is beyond me.

Unlike '69, I have not seen evidence that PMD built and shipped cars for Zone Stock inventory for later sale to a Dealer in '64.

The 99x codes that do pop up seem more likely to have been associated with Co. Cars for Zone executives. These show the Zone address as the Sold To.

Okay, so while looking for a record to confirm this, I find a "smoking gun".


I have ANOTHER '64 Fremont doc, Charge To is Majestic Pontiac in Los Angeles.

Lists the SAME Ship To address as Bart's at 329 Van Norman in Montebello but instead of calling it Car Service, Inc., it shows Majestic Pontiac, Inc.

No separate Ship To dealer code listed either.

Majestic was NOT the owner of this facility, I am 99% certain.

Instead, Majestic Pontiac, like Chieftain Pontiac, used it for the rail yard terminus for cars they bought from PMD and had shipped in by rail. Car Service, Inc. then truck transported them to the dealer lot after breaking down the rail car delivery.

All to save some on the shipping cost I'm sure.

[b-man]

Thanks for all the help, you've answered many questions that I would not have known to ask.

My PHS copy is so poor that I am pretty much lost without your assistance, I can't discern any 'boxes' on it anywhere. My copy really isn't much clearer than the scan I posted.

I did however edit the PHS document post above and replaced it with a slightly larger/different scan to see if it helps any.

The 326 engine code 960 and sequence number 269851 listed on the PHS does match the engine that I have, so not too surprisingly this car still retains its original engine. Have held onto it because I knew it was likely the original engine. I haven't had the heart to scrap it because who knows, someday I might decide to rebuild it and put it back in the car.

Not sure where the trans codes might be stamped, the trans doesn't have an ID tag on the right side like the example shown in the Tempest Chassis Shop Manual.