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#1
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Fuel System Choice
Hey guys I am on the fuel system stage of my restoration and really need some help on a fuel system for the car.
My Set UP 455 bored .040 with 4.5 stroke. Dynoed 560 HP and 650 Ft. Pounds of torque It has a 950 cfm carb running to a fuel cell in the back. This will be running an 8 an line to the carb and 6an return line back to the fuel call. I have purchased a 35 micron and 100 micron fuel filters with 8an inlets and outlets. I am having difficulty finding the right size regulator and pump for the car. I thought a Holley Blue fuel pump but they only come with 6an inlets and outlets and the same story for the regulators. Also what pressure do I set this regulator at when I am done. Any advice on the regulator and pump selection would be appreciated? Brands that have worked for your combo? Advice on the fittings, going from 6an to 8an or not? Thanks Chris |
#2
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Probably not what you want to hear but I had trouble with mine making similar power all the way up until I went Tanks Inc with an in tank pump.
It’s not just the pump, but the better tank with baffles.
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1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs 1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455 Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports |
#3
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Ouch yeah can see the fuel taking some ggggg’ss and moving to the back of the tank. May have to make sure the tank stays at least half full to avoid that issue hopefully cause i dont have foam in it
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#4
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Agree, I’d want some sort of sump in this system. I’d use a walbro 255 in a tanks Inc tank with a bypass regulator.
I would run a regulator like this. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Aerom...SAAEgK9MvD_BwE You could actually run this in a “corvette” setup with the regulator in the rear with a short return line and the supply to the carb in a dead head style.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#5
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Mallory 140 with a return regulator and run 8an supply and return lines.
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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2 373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft 308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471 |
#6
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Please note that the Holley blue regulator is a bad restriction in terms of being used with a 4 bbl carb!
The control flow needle used in it has far less flow area then both float bowl needle and seats combined in even a small Holley 600 cfm carb, just bad news! To me the only acceptable place to use one is on a dirt track 2bbl carb limited motor.
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I do stuff for reasons. |
#7
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Thanks for the recommendations. I see these pumps mostly have 6an ports. i assume i will need a 8an to 6an fitting? Will this impede fuel flow?
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#8
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I ran an Auromotive A750 on my wife's 68 Firebird with -6 lines to the reg and back to the tank. We ran a best of 10.83 with that setup. Tank was sumped with a -10 feeding inlet side of 100 micron filter. 10 micron at carb. -8 from reg to carb. Engine was around 600 hp 600 torque. 950 quickfuel carb.
You want 10 micro at carb, not 35. Fuel pressure set at 6.5 to 7 psi. I run 6.5 psi. Follow the manufacture recommendation for line sizes. If you put a -8 on a pump that requires a -6 supply, you will be loading the pump up current wise. It puts too much head pressure on the pump supply making it work harder, and can cause fuel delivery issues. I used a teflon liner braided hose good for fuel. Aermotive shows diagrams on how to properly install a fuel system. https://aeromotiveinc.com/product/a750-fuel-pump-2/
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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, E-head, Solid roller 3650 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick. Best so far 10.12@133 mph. 1.43 60 ft. 76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend, 468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh. |
#9
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So again, direct experience with this.
Initially with my 462 a Q jet and a Robb MC 600 pump, I couldnt get down the track at all. Would fall on its face at like 100-300 feet. This is with 1/2" lines and a 1/2" pickup. Upgraded to Robbs bigger pump, a regulator and vent line. That worked until you didnt have the tank mostly full. If you were below like 2/3rds it would run away from the pickup and fall on its face. Got tired of the nonsense, I found a Tanks Inc LS swap setup for sale used locally and installed that. No more problems. Was still able to use Robbs regulator. Really nice piece. Highly recommend that. reasonably priced too. Then I installed a Holley Terminator and now I have new problems. Because Hot Rods. I will say with yours you have 2 needle and seats where I only had one. That MIGHT mask some issues and let you get away with it. If you want to find fuel system deficiencies install a QuadraJet.
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1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs 1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455 Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports |
#10
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You mention a fuel cell. If it has a gravity fed sump, then you're just looking for and inline pump mounted lower than the cell that flows enough fuel for the power level. There are formulas out there for determining this. Basically it takes .5 lb/HR per horsepower. Build a little extra in for gravitational forces. And the flow rating needs to be correct at the pressure you intend to run. Wide open ratings aren't the whole story. As pressure goes up volume goes down. The 140gph pump mentioned earlier is a pretty well vetted number for your power level. Aeromotive makes a return regulator that many here use at carb pressures and comes with a spring to swap it to efi pressure if the need ever arises.
All that being said, the efi style in tank pumps are nice, and offer some advantage, at a cost of course.
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 |
#11
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#12
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Caddor, is this a race car or street/strip? I am at a similar power level and am using a Tanks, Inc (baffled tank, small sump, corners cut off the front), 340 lph pump, 8AN feed AND return, Weldon regulator, feeding an 850 QF Holley. I could have saved a LOT of $$$$ and time if I did this from the beginning. The Holley Blue or Black pumps should work great with your fuel cell. I had the latter for a short time and it was too loud for me personally on the street. I would definitely use the same size return and feed line. PSI should be dictated by the carb manufacturer, 6.5 in my case. Whatever you do, put a fuel guage inside the car(even if it's temporary) to make sure you have constant pressure. I am far from an expert but this worked for me. Good luck!
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Chris D 69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60' |
#13
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Quote:
Jon
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'78 Macho T/A DKM#95, 460cid, SRP pistons, KRE 310 D ports, 3" pypes, Hooker 1 3/4" headers, hydraulic roller, 10" Continental, 3.42 gears 11.5 @117.5mph 3900lbs ([_|_] ##\|/##[_|_]) |
#14
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#15
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Think you will find that with a true return regulator that you should use at least -8AN return. On my drag car even the -8AN return line created a 6.5 PSI back pressure. Going to a -10AN line lower that to 2 PSI. Anyway, if you do use the -6AN return line, don't be too quick to blame the regulator if you can't get the pressure down with the adjustment screw.
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Mick Batson 1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 2+2 survivor AC auto -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon. |
#16
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#17
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AN = Army Navy fitting. they are based on a 37* flange UNLIKE common SAE flare fittings @ 45* Sizes are a easy as it gets....take the size number put it on TOP of 16. EAXAMPLE: 8AN = 8/16" or....1/2" So a 6AN would be 3/8". This is the O.D. of the tubing
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#18
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Another vote for Mallory. I ran a 110 converted to bypass with a Mallory bypass regulator. Ran 1/2" supply and return. Rock steady fuel pressure all of the time. Ran Holley Blue pumps back in the day. They were LOUD and unreliable. Holley Blue is a rotary vane pump. Mallory is a gear rotor. Gear rotor is much quieter and more efficient.
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The Following User Says Thank You to JSchmitz For This Useful Post: | ||
#19
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#20
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I have a perfectly good Mallory 110 and bypass regulator if you're interested. I'm switching to LS. Doubt I'll need these, maybe ever. PM me if ya want. I'll try to figure out a good deal price for them. I actually have a backup Mallory 110 also. Both with very little run time.
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