200R4 trans problem.
 

My 69 GTO has been converted from a turbo400 to a 200R4 tranny. It has been in there for nearly 5 years and I notice the last time I drove it that it's losing fluid big time. 2 quarts for a 15 mile drive. Funny thing is it doesn't leak when idling. So only under higher pressure situations. It is coming from the passenger side of the tranny about 4 inches back where the fluid lines come in. There is a round disc or piston looking thing approx 3 inch diameter that seemed to have a spring clip halfway on/off. I looked on internet for an exploded view and cannot find any documentation that says what this thing is. Seems to be a cap over some type of piston. See attached pictures.

My questions are:

1. can this just be pushed back in and reinstall the spring ring?

2. what is needed to fix it?

3. Does it indicate another problem?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Mike

Looks like you have the super servo or some version of it. The lip seal is probably bad anyway so even if you manage to get it back in and the retaining spring reinstalled it may still leak. But it's worth a try.

If shifting characteristics have changed or degraded, the pin may be dislodged from the band or otherwise compromised and it needs to come out anyway. There's a reason this happened suddenly after 5 years and it's probably not just that the spring ring suddenly decided to give up.

That is the servo cover & it has come off. You need to remove it the rest of teh way & put a new seal in it & make sure it's clean when you put it back on . The seal is going to be a big O-ring, if you can't do it just take it to any good shop & have them do it & do a trans service on the trans so you know it's back on & clean with new fluid. Hopfully you have not burned up the trans by driving it , but get it fixed ASAP or the rans will be junk soon , they don't like running on no fluid very long.

I second both the comments above. I installed one of those super servo's on my 200-4r and they are a b*#%# to install and get the snap ring in. Lots of pressure required, or at least it was when it was new.

I'd take it to a trans shop and I bet a pro would be able to pop it out, put a new seal on it, and reinstall it in no time with some tool, trade secret or shear experience.

Thanks for the replies on this issue.

I sent an email to the shop who built and installed the trans and they said to push it back in and try to secure the ring clip. Of course it probably isn't that easy but worth a try. If I can just get it back in place I can then drive it to a shop to get the trans serviced.

The idea of removing it the rest of the way sounds good but since I don't know the inner workings of what's behind the servo cover, it's kind of scary to pull it apart. Reminds me of the first time I pulled the top off a quadrajet.... Parts everywhere.

Does anyone have a exploded view of what's behind the servo cover? That would help me understand what I'm dealing with.

Mike

I couldn't find any good pictures specifically on the 200-4r, but these show essentially what it is. Basically its an assembly in a cup, and it'll stay together if removed, then there is a big strong spring with a spike through it. The spike goes to a band.

A generic picture. It's labeled as the OD servo in this diagram.
http://www.crownvic.net/bok/ODservo/29.jpg

This is a picture off a Ford transmission, but again, the essential looks are the same. The servo piston and overdrive servo pin will stay in the servo cover, and the servo spring will be loose around the pin if you remove it (not a big deal), but its that heavy spring you are fighting pushing it back in. And due to tight tolerances, you may need to remove it entirely to get it to slide back into place.
http://www.ford-aode.com/76833.jpg

Setting the snap ring was a pain on the bench, not sure how tough it'll be under the car... I'd get either a plate of 1/4"-3/8" steel to set against the floor board, then use a pry bar to pry against the floor and servo cover to compress it back in. If you don't use a plate of steel (or thin enough wood?) you risk putting a hole in your floor with the end of the pry bar from the pressure. Then once the servo is compressed, and you are holding it, you have to get the snap ring in! I really felt like I needed a third hand when I installed mine.

Thanks for the info.

I tried the prybar with a piece of 1/2" oak against the floorpan and was able to depress the cover in but it doesn't move very far. possibly 3/10 of an inch. As soon as I pressed it in the snap ring came completely out!! I don't see a detent in the side of the casing where the snap ring will fit into.

It's going to be a two man job with the tranny in the car. No way I can push it in and work the snap ring in place. I'm going to see if I can get a large woodworking clamp that will reach it and hold it while I squeeze the ring in. With the floor pan and exhaust so close there really is no room to work on it. I doubt there is enough clearance to remove the servo assy if needed with the tranny in the car.

Just hope the seal isn't destroyed once I get it back in place.

Installing mine out of the car still gives me nightmares =/ I wonder if there would be a way to make a threaded jack to push off the body on to the servo and expands with a turn of a wrench? Like a threaded rod and threaded tube? Some how lock it into a block of wood or such and start turning?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...2a59f2c8a1b7f1

I wouldn't want to drop the pan, but I would if need be and thought this pretty inventive.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/s...photo/3391.jpg

SO I ended up making a wedge shaped piece of wood and hammered it in until it depressed the servo cover all the way and was able to get the snap ring back in place. It was a real pain but it's in there and after I pressed the servo in and left it come out the ring stayed in place. Car is still high in the air so I haven't started it yet and driven since I probably need to add 2 or 3 qts of tranny fluid.

SO just asking. If the servo is pulled out with the engine NOT running, would the tranny fluid gush out? Just wondering in case it leaks and I need to put a new o-ring seal on the servo cover.

The servo cover on mine looks exactly like the one in your picture.

Thanks for all your help!!

Mike

Wooden wedge for the win!

With the engine off it could very well leak if the seal is damaged along the bottom. With the engine off, as the converter and cooler drain down (could take a while) the fluid settling in the pan eventually crests up over the pan rail. I've had cracked dipstick tubes leak after shut down, but be fine while running, and the servo's bottom is definitely within that range. Where as, if the seal is damaged, it may just barely leak or not at all when running and the fluid level is lower. I don't think there is any actual fluid pressure on the outside seal, it's just to seal against splash and drain down (I think!).

My 2 cents. When you think you have it fixed, I'd take it to a tranny shop and have them put in a new 0 ring and make sure it's in properly. Peace of mind.

Madtexan. . . . .Near future for me is a 2004r like you have.
Questions I have based on your experience with this tranny.
Have you ever checked your fuel economy ?
About how many RPM are you turning at highway speed ?
Can you cruise 70+ MPH without feeling like it needs to shift one more time ? (my turbo 400 always feels like that)
What rear end are you running ?

This wasn't much of a concern since I don't put many miles on the car. I'm sure it has improved a good amount but I can't give you before or after numbers.
I can cruise at 65-70 and only turn about ~ 2300 RPM. Before it was around 3000 or so and 75-80 made the engine feel like it was going to blow. I just wasn't comfortable having it rev that high for a casual cruise.
Yes it cruises nicely at 70.
I have 3:55 posi rear. I changed from a 3:23 open when I swapped to the 200r4. If I would have left the 3:23 it would cruise even lower but I wanted slightly more off the line punch.

Awe heck, 3,000rpm is nothing to worry about :)

I have 4.56's in my Firebird and with the 200-4r I'm twisting ~2,800rpm at 70mph. It's an L6 and still getting a hair over 19mpg. That off the line punch is nice =D

Well the servo ring came off again. Just got back from a short drive and it's left a puddle on the garage floor. Didn't seem to happen until I kicked on the gas once in 4th gear and caused a kickdown. Back to square one except I know now it's not a one time occurrence!!

What would cause this to happen, again? Something wrong inside and it's building too much pressure or bad casing or could it just be a faulty snap ring?

Bummer. Snap ring or snap ring seating. I'd be surprised if the groove was damaged enough for it to keep letting go.

Try wedging it in there and setting the snap ring again, and use an inspection mirror to see if you can tell if something is off.

It almost sounds like the pin is too long and the servo cover isn't in far enough to allow the snap ring to fully seat in the groove.

I've NEVER seen a snap ring come out for any reason provided the pin was shortened correctly and enough removed for adequate clearance to the anchor point on the band allowing the servo cover to go it far enough so the ring is fully seated in the groove.

If it was done correctly and the snap ring has blown out, the snap ring groove would have been damaged and most likely the case is junk.

It's been quite a while since I've been into a 200 and used the aftermarket apply piston assembly, but I do remember that the pins needs to be shortened some to allow adequate clearance to get the servo cover in deep enough to seat the snap ring. This is going to be the most likely root of the problem.....IMHO.....Cliff

Thanks for the thoughts on this mess. I sent another email to forum member JAKESHOE about this since he is the guy who built the tranny and installed it for me. I can get another snap ring and install it and limp it to his shop but that's about 50-60 miles away. I'd be taking a big risk in driving it gingerly to his shop. I'll see what he suggests.

Cliff, when the pin is ground down properly, how much travel should the servo cover have if you push in once the snap ring is installed? Should it move at all? Mine only moved about 1/32" or less. It was very tight.

Where in Richardson?