1964 389 block question
 

Are all 1964 389 blocks drilled for a block mounted starter? Thanks

I have been working on Pontiacs for 55 years and I have never seen one that wasn't. I suppose some early built big cars could have been built with left over 1963 blocks.

My 64 Bonne was drilled.

All 64 blocks should be ready to accept a block mounted starter since 1964 was the first year for the TB400 trans which never had a provision for a bell housing mounted starter.

Great. Thanks everyone. I’m headed out this morning to look at a block to use for my 64 GTO project. I decided to set aside the original block - just in case.

When shopping for a starter, some suppliers start the Pontiac block mounted starter in 1965 in their catalogs. FWIW

The 64 blocks had the starter provision, but it was only used on stick shift cars, and turbine 300 2 speed automatic A body cars. The 64 B bodies were still 4 speed hydra-matics and slim jims, for automatics. 64 stick cars had an new aluminum bell housing, (previous bell housings were cast iron), and a new flywheel that required the block mounted starter. The 2 speed GTO/Tempest/Lemans also required a block mounted starter, but only were used in A bodies. The B bodies still used a bell housing mounted starter on automatics.

The TH 400 first appeared on 65 B bodies, and on 67 GTOs for the first year in an A body.

I also have never seen any 64 blocks that weren't drilled for block mounted starters, and I've seen quite a few in the last 55, plus years that I've made a living turning wrenches.

I believe standardizing the block for the provision to use either mounting was a money saving thought that all the blocks. One machining operation could be used for all cars, no matter if they needed a bell housing starter, or a block mounted starter. 64 was he final year for the B body automatics requiring a bell housing mounted starter, before switching to the TH 400 in 65. 64 was a changeover year, that fit both applications.

Thanks everyone. The block did have the provision for a block mounted starter, and was still standard bore. So it grabbed it for the base of my 4” stroke build.

64 was the last year that 389 had fairly thick castings, in 65, and 66 Pontiac cast a lot of 389s with thin cylinder walls, so you picked the right year to save.

Back in the early 70s I bought a 65 GTO that had a ton of machine work done to it. It was .060 over. The first week I owned it the cylinder wall collapsed, and the piston ended up in the water jacket. I had the clutch in, and revved the engine, and then it stalled. Not aware of what happened, I popped the clutch to restart it. The crank broke in 5 separate pieces, and it just broke everything inside of the engine. I was able to salvage 4 pistons, the cam, and lifters, cylinder heads, and the intake manifold. Even the timing cover got cracked when the crank broke. It happened at about 3000 RPM. The damage all ensued when I popped the clutch with the piston cocked in the cylinder after the cylinder wall collapsed, initially stalling the engine.

Right after the carnage happened I was reading in one of my magazines that 65, and 66 had thin cylinder walls, and the maximum bore should be kept to .030 over.......:mad: A few days late, and lots of dollars short.....:cry:

I paid a lot of money for that car mostly because he had all the receipts to document the work, and the parts in the engine. I wish I had read the magazine before I laid out all that money......:eek:

Thanks Sirotica…that’s some carnage for sure. I knew about the heavier casting. This block has a linear mark in one cylinder probably from a broken ring. Otherwise it looks pretty good. Soon it will be off to the machine shop to be checked out.

BTW - my family were/are dirt-track racers in Western NY.

X2

Tom V.

Are you familiar with Stateline Speedway, Busti, NY? Link: http://newstatelinespeedway.com/ It is located just inside the NY border of the PA/NY border, hence the name.

I'm originally from Erie PA, the pics in my signature were taken at Eriez Speedway. Link: https://www.facebook.com/EriezSpeedway/

The Stateline Speedway in NY, and Eriez Speedway, Erie PA, were sister tracks about 45 miles apart, and were built, originally owned, and run by a a couple of families (The Briggs family, and the Frank families) in and around Busti NY, and Sugargrove PA.

The man that currently owns Stateline, Jim Scott, used to race GTO late models in the 64-66 era. Of course one of my favorite drivers......:thumbup:

He later switched to Ford, and was sponsored by Buesink Ford in Jamestown NY.

Chub Frank, and Boom Briggs, are children descended from those families that went on to become fairly well known late model drivers around the country, from that portion of the two states.

:2cents:

That’s a bit west of where I grew up. Although my grandfather (and grandmother) raced all over through the 1950-early 1980s. Raced mostly closer to home in the later years. Oswego…Dundee IIRC.

My Uncle Dale currently runs at Skyline and Outlaw raceways (mostly).

So many tracks in that area…I think being a little kid and hearing my Grandpa fire those engines is probably the beginning of my car addiction.