What will the new Pontiac Race motor look like?
 

This is Bob C. posting this. Not in anyway a Allpontiac comment or post.

I want this to be fair for all vendors not a one sided rule for any one vendor.


If we all can agree to talk about this:

(This just a start to open up what will be accepted as a Pontiac at a sanctioned Pontiac race so everyone will be on the same page and have the same rules and opportunity to be fair at an event)



All Allpontiac IA II motors will be sold as a replacement that every stock part will bolt on to every motor as before. It is just built like a brick crap house. It has all the up grades that fix the common problem with a stock motor and can take all the HP that most hard core racers can throw at it.

The IA IIR motors can be ordered with these options and still remain stock to the outside as a IA II STD motor if all agree.

Spread bore up to 4.750 center to center.
18 Head bolts per bank for the Tiger Head Cylinder Heads.
55 MM Cam bore
Lifter bushings
Smaller main bores
Modified oiling system
4.495 Bore
Modified Main webs made stronger
Moved Lifter bores to better line up the push rods
Dry Deck motor
Stronger valley area

The user could still bolt a stock head to the block anytime.
Bolt the stock water pump housing.
Use a stock crankshaft with a 3.00 inch main
Use stock motor mounts.
Stock oil pump and pan will bolt to the motor.
Stock Valley pan
Stock distributor
Stock Intake

So if a racer shows up with a motor that will not take a stock Pontiac parts and still work, it is not a Pontiac and can not enter a race as a Pontiac traditional design motor.


Any racer can build, bolt, modify, add any type of fuel system, Blower, EFI, Turbo, Nitro, NOS. and E87, If a billet block is machined in Aluminum it must be made to the outside design of the 455 Pontiac. Billet Heads have to be of a passed type design type.

Open for comments. And keep it civil please. Grown up conversations a must.

how much and when?

Mike,

When is a few weeks. Casting mods are in the works.

Price. TBD What you would expect to pay for a Merlin big M or a Dart block.

Well.....since i'm a big deal.....I'd get a discount. Just sayin..... LOL

JK

I've not reseached chevy part pricing lately so IDK

I like all of the updates. More power is always good. The ability to spread the bore centerline will most likely create the most discussion. Since I enjoy "Heads Up" racing, I have always believed that the stock bore center line has been the biggest factor at keeping HP per cu. in. in normally aspirated engines fairly close to equal. What is the potential increase in Hp per cu. in. if the maximum stock bore is 4.400 and the new bore is 4.500. As Robert requested for this thread I want to discuss only the potential change in power for bores up to 4.500

I would agree with everything Bob has written with one question. If one was to build a billit block within the Pontiac dimensions but with skirts and side bolts would that count? The argument would be that a stock pan couldn't fit but a pan wouldn't fit with a bolt on style skirt either.
SD

I am guessing some would want clarification about the billet heads that would be allowed. "based on a past design" ? Does that make Visners, CV-1's in billet form other canted valve heads, Warp 6 heads and varriants OK or not OK? My opinion here would be if it bolts to your IAII block or similar block it is OK.

The stronger lifter valley comment seems strange to me Isn't the area already an inch thick ??? have there been issues in that area ??? Also the list says smaller mains then goes on to say you can use a 3.00 main crank explain please.

Can the "Modified oiling system" be applied to existing IA-II's?

Curt,

I just wanted to throw in that our valley is casted differently then a stock motor and has larger ribs across it for added strength. The boss for the lifters are a little wider and may need a touch with a tool to clear a lifter bar depending on the brand of lifters.

There are many things that will/are changing with an IA IIR motor that we will not post due to letting other manufactures in on our changes. The ones I stated are visual changes. The others are changes that Dart and Merlin and Donovan block have in place. We have made engineering changes to the casting that make it even stronger. We are making a material changes to the better too.

As to the question about skirts. It is not me that will say what goes or does not. You the people will make that call. We just want the playing field to be fair.

If you can bolt on a skirt on, I say good. It is a mod to a block.

If you build a one off block that has skirts and a has a Hemi Crankshaft and has a 5.000 bore spacing and not one Pontiac part will bolt on it then is a experimental motor. So why not let a Merlin Big M with a Monster 600 cfm head run in the fastest class too. Just because a group can build a few one off motors and they tell nothing of what it is or what it has, does not make it a Pontiac.

May be we should have a class that does have that combo and make the races a show case and bring in other people to see us against them deal. Now that would make a event more exciting and bring more people to see that our stuff can and will kick there brand ass too. That is called growth, changing with the times, being pro active. What's the big deal? It's entertainment in the end.

No.

My SBC Dart block cost is well over 1000 bucks cheaper than your block price now. You are going to make things better and drop the price ??? I dont see that.

When we sell 300 a month. Sure.

How about the ability to move up to 60mm cams?

great post!!!! thanks for stepping things up!!!! Pontiac's best excitement is in the future!!!! ;) ;) ;) can't wait to see the cool stuff that will happen

This is me talking to Bob C. (and not All Pontiac):

Explain this more?

Sounds like you are advocating doing this?

:confused:

Remember keep it civil.

:)

The cost of tooling is the key question. But yes we can do 60mm.

JnB Machine who does our machining does 8 thousand blocks a year. They do all of Mercury marine in boards V8 and V6 motors, All of GM 572 blocks, All of the cylinder heads to for these motors. The have a 50 tapper Labond set up in a cell with our tooling in the cage and on machine pallets where a robot picks it up and brings it to the machine.

Look at this link: This is the machine we do our stuff on you will be impressed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv5OJIDiHrM#t=82

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlKSN08CxPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5jSNHTOlEo



So many people window shop. They request products and services and never buy. We can afford to spend money in a wish.

John,

If the event promoter wants to add a class for this and other motors and style cars to race against the Pontiacs. I think it is a great idea. All out balls to the wall event,them against us deal. Why not? Raise a big pot money and bring in the fastest. A NHRA event style type of a event at a Pontiac race? Hell yes.

Isn't the Butler Frantic Four basically that, except for just Pontiacs?
How many racers enter that?

Also what kind of NHRA event are you wanting?
(Top Dragster? Top Alcohol Dragster? Pro Stock? Comp? Super Stock?)

:confused:

While I can see a mega Pontiac block would be nice, if we can't get what we have now running better, can't see it being any better with a 'bigger' block?

Just think of all those EHTTFMF guys having to throw away their junk and starting fresh?

:eek:

I think this is a great idea, but for me I would rather see a block that can handle 1000-1200 hp all day and be much cheaper! I think the customer base would be far higher then these all out max effort deals IMO